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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Walker Hepburn (Read 2302 times)
marlinguy
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Re: Walker Hepburn
Reply #30 - Oct 5th, 2024 at 3:41pm
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Here's a little drawing I made of my Zettler Bros. Ballard barrel. As you can see the bore runs centered to the exterior barrel dimensions, with only the threaded shank turned 1/8" off center to the rest of the barrel. Not at an angle.
The shank is 1/8" offset to the rest of the barrel, and only needs an extractor change when switching to CF or RF barrels.

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LRF
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Re: Walker Hepburn
Reply #31 - Oct 9th, 2024 at 6:42am
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Vall, so what you are saying is the only part of the barrel that is "off center" is the shoulder of the barrel. The 1/8" off set means the shoulder is 1/8" more on one side than the other. At least your sketch shows that. What does that look like with regards to the mating of the face of the receiver and shoulder of the barrel when screwed together?
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Walker Hepburn
Reply #32 - Oct 9th, 2024 at 11:40am
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LRF wrote on Oct 9th, 2024 at 6:42am:
Vall, so what you are saying is the only part of the barrel that is "off center" is the shoulder of the barrel. The 1/8" off set means the shoulder is 1/8" more on one side than the other. At least your sketch shows that. What does that look like with regards to the mating of the face of the receiver and shoulder of the barrel when screwed together?


The only offset is the threaded shank, which is 1/8" offset. The way mine is setup the offset is located straight up, so when the octagon barrel is installed it's lower from the receiver top flat by 1/8", but sides are almost equal to the receiver width. A new forearm was made to accommodate the lower barrel location and fit the lower part of the action.
  

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steel-pounder
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Re: Walker Hepburn
Reply #33 - Oct 10th, 2024 at 11:00am
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marlinguy wrote on Oct 5th, 2024 at 3:41pm:
Here's a little drawing I made of my Zettler Bros. Ballard barrel. 
The shank is 1/8" offset to the rest of the barrel, and only needs an extractor change when switching to CF or RF barrels.

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I am sure this works for you with your ballard. However since the breech block on a hepburn has to be removed to change the extractor and the extractor removed to change the barrel, why not just get a rimfire block and slide it back in with the rimfire extractor and save all the jacking around with the offset barrel and second forearm etc..
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Walker Hepburn
Reply #34 - Oct 10th, 2024 at 11:25am
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steel-pounder wrote on Oct 10th, 2024 at 11:00am:
[quote author=6A66756B6E6960727E070 link=1727404389/30#30 date=1728157286] 

I am sure this works for you with your ballard. However since the breech block on a hepburn has to be removed to change the extractor and the extractor removed to change the barrel, why not just get a rimfire block and slide it back in with the rimfire extractor and save all the jacking around with the offset barrel and second forearm etc..


Well your method also requires the breech block and extractor to be removed, so I don't see any difference in what it takes to change barrels?
The method Zettler Bros. used on my Ballard does one major thing, it saves having to have a 2nd breech block for a .22RF barrel. To me that's a major expense for any single shot, and a forearm for each spare barrel is something almost every multi barrel setup has used for a long time.
There is no "jacking around" because the shank is offset. In a switch barrel gun the barrels are setup with a cross pin, or a setscrew ala Stevens, so barrels are simply spun off by hand, and it doesn't require any more work to have a centered shank or an offset shank.
Some brands of actions are much quicker to change barrels on a takedown system, like Ballard, Stevens, Winchester. A Hepburn is a bit more time consuming to remove the breech block, so doing that is going to be more involved regardless of what breech blocks are used.

  

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steel-pounder
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Re: Walker Hepburn
Reply #35 - Oct 11th, 2024 at 10:55am
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marlinguy wrote on Oct 10th, 2024 at 11:25am:
steel-pounder wrote on Oct 10th, 2024 at 11:00am:
[quote author=6A66756B6E6960727E070 link=1727404389/30#30 date=1728157286] 



Well your method also requires the breech block and extractor to be removed, so I don't see any difference in what it takes to change barrels?
The method Zettler Bros. used on my Ballard does one major thing, it saves having to have a 2nd breech block for a .22RF barrel. To me that's a major expense for any single shot, and a forearm for each spare barrel is something almost every multi barrel setup has used for a long time.
There is no "jacking around" because the shank is offset. In a switch barrel gun the barrels are setup with a cross pin, or a setscrew ala Stevens, so barrels are simply spun off by hand, and it doesn't require any more work to have a centered shank or an offset shank.
Some brands of actions are much quicker to change barrels on a takedown system, like Ballard, Stevens, Winchester. A Hepburn is a bit more time consuming to remove the breech block, so doing that is going to be more involved regardless of what breech blocks are used.



I know nothing about a ballard rifle. I do know that with both 1885 high wall and remington hepburn rifles the breach block has to be removed to switch barrels. this is not true for winchester take down models but I didnt thik we were talking about them. 

     I wasnt trying to get your panties in a wad but I see no other way to describe setting up a blank in a lathe to turn the shank offset to the bore.  unless your willing to just off set it and take what you get for bore alignment. when i thread and chamber a barrel i dial the bore in to as close to perfectly centered as possible, usually about 1-2 ten thousands of an inch. I know of no .0001 indicators with 1/8 range of movement so yeah JACKING AROUND.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Walker Hepburn
Reply #36 - Oct 11th, 2024 at 11:35am
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Not being a machinist at all, I have no idea how the old masters dialed in a barrel to be .125" offset on the shank. But I don't see any reason that a bore being .001" or even slightly more or less offset on the shank of a .22 barrel would have a noticeable effect on accuracy? 
I only know my Zettler Ballard shoots better than my skills allow, and others who've shot it did better than I did. No way to tell how one of the brothers dialed in the offset shank, or cut it now? Wish I knew as it would answer how much jacking around they did to get it done.
Not sure why you think my  shorts are in a wad?
  

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bnice
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Re: Walker Hepburn
Reply #37 - Oct 11th, 2024 at 6:41pm
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One breech block also is one less to lose! can't help you on the extractor
  
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steel-pounder
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Re: Walker Hepburn
Reply #38 - Oct 11th, 2024 at 9:20pm
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marlinguy wrote on Oct 11th, 2024 at 11:35am:
Not being a machinist at all, I have no idea how the old masters dialed in a barrel to be .125" offset on the shank. But I don't see any reason that a bore being .001" or even slightly more or less offset on the shank of a .22 barrel would have a noticeable effect on accuracy? 
I only know my Zettler Ballard shoots better than my skills allow, and others who've shot it did better than I did. No way to tell how one of the brothers dialed in the offset shank, or cut it now? Wish I knew as it would answer how much jacking around they did to get it done.
Not sure why you think my  shorts are in a wad?


I possibly just misread the tone of your post. My appologies. 

I know guys that will just chuck up a barrel in a three jaw and cut away. My ocd will not let me do anything than the absolute best that I am capable of doing and trying to do better than that. 
  
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