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oughtsix
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busted brass
Sep 12th, 2024 at 4:52pm
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The novelty of this phenomenon has worn off.  Left to right are  Jameson (JBA)  .43 Spanish,  JBA 43 Span, Starline 50 -110 (resized to 43 Peabody fireformed in 44-77) , JBA 44-77, a normal   UMC 44-77.   I lose 2-3 cases per trip to range.  I thought it was only Jameson brass but it is not limited to theirs. 
I'm shooting it in an original rolling block  with 83grains of 2Fg velocity is in the 1330fps range  the cases come apart below the bottle neck (JBA 44-77) and I think they were all annealed before forming.  All but one of the broken bits came out with a cleaning rod.  any ideas?
  

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oneatatime
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Re: busted brass
Reply #1 - Sep 12th, 2024 at 5:30pm
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Chamber swabbed dry after wiping? Neck (or no) sizing only?
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

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Re: busted brass
Reply #2 - Sep 12th, 2024 at 5:38pm
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oneatatime wrote on Sep 12th, 2024 at 5:30pm:
Chamber swabbed dry after wiping? Neck (or no) sizing only?


Yes, looks like what happens with a wet chamber if not dried after pushing a wet patch down the bore.
  

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oughtsix
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Re: busted brass
Reply #3 - Sep 12th, 2024 at 5:48pm
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Bore wiper squeegee followed by dry patch, every few shots I wipe out the chamber  area with a dry  50 cal mop.   no neck sizing, pp bullets slip fit- tight but the slip in.  when the cases come apart, the flatten out the bottled area and push the case into the rifling. You can see it on the one in the middle.  That one was harder to get out than the rest
  

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art_ruggiero
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Re: busted brass
Reply #4 - Sep 12th, 2024 at 6:12pm
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be careful with compression  keep it to .030 or less  art
  
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Bluedog
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Re: busted brass
Reply #5 - Sep 12th, 2024 at 6:39pm
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I have had issues of this nature as well, 
The gentleman that pointed out bore swabbing are spot on
I bore mop every shot after cleaning and rotate bore mops to keep relatively dry. 
But I have a hunch you may benefit from measuring your brass, they are likely to need a trim. 
I have found brass used for paper patch needs to be monitored for length from time to time. 

Just a thought 

Jason
  
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JackHughs
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Re: busted brass
Reply #6 - Sep 12th, 2024 at 8:17pm
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Hydrogen embrittlement?

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burntwater
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Re: busted brass
Reply #7 - Sep 12th, 2024 at 8:46pm
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JackHughs wrote on Sep 12th, 2024 at 8:17pm:
Hydrogen embrittlement?

JackHughs


Not likely as this condition is only found mostly in stainless steel alloys, some titanium, and a few specialty steel alloys. And the physical failure characteristics are much different

Rick. 

After digging into some old metallurgy books I need to say to Jack that though it’s very very unlikely it is nevertheless a known failure of brass especially in tension. So I really should modify my original statement. Sorry

Rick
« Last Edit: Sep 12th, 2024 at 11:38pm by burntwater »  
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oughtsix
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Re: busted brass
Reply #8 - Sep 12th, 2024 at 9:29pm
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art_ruggiero wrote on Sep 12th, 2024 at 6:12pm:
be careful with compression  keep it to .030 or less  art



No compression, in this case, powder is above the bottle neck, .06 poly wad. 

Did it with compression card wad and a grease wad,too
  

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frnkeore
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Re: busted brass
Reply #9 - Sep 13th, 2024 at 2:20am
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Are you keeping track of case strength?

I haven't shot BP for quite a while but, when I did, it was common in 32/40, to get case separation, shooting breech seated.

Because of it's slow burn and compaction, BP creates friction on the case walls, at ignition and that pulls on the case walls, allowing separation. I'll say it happened about 1 out of 100 shots, shooting a single case.

You might try polishing the interior of the case, down to where they are separating.
  

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oughtsix
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Re: busted brass
Reply #10 - Sep 13th, 2024 at 7:35am
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frnkeore wrote on Sep 13th, 2024 at 2:20am:
Are you keeping track of case strength?

I haven't shot BP for quite a while but, when I did, it was common in 32/40, to get case separation, shooting breech seated.

Because of it's slow burn and compaction, BP creates friction on the case walls, at ignition and that pulls on the case walls, allowing separation. I'll say it happened about 1 out of 100 shots, shooting a single case.

You might try polishing the interior of the case, down to where they are separating.


I'm new to black powder, never heard of testing for case strength.  How you you do that?   Always something new....

shooting fixed, btw
  

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Re: busted brass
Reply #11 - Sep 13th, 2024 at 8:06am
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I zoomed way up on your picture, looks like corroded cases in that neck area? Did these cases get a good cleaning before loading?
Also your picture makes it look like you have different rim thicknesses.
  
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rgchristensen
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Re: busted brass
Reply #12 - Sep 13th, 2024 at 8:18am
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KFW wrote on Sep 13th, 2024 at 8:06am:
I zoomed way up on your picture, looks like corroded cases in that neck area? Did these cases get a good cleaning before loading?
Also your picture makes it look like you have different rim thicknesses.



Since he’s not sizing the cases, they should headspace on the shoulder OK.  Length measurements should tell if the cases are annealed too soft and are stretching.

CHRIS
  
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Re: busted brass
Reply #13 - Sep 13th, 2024 at 9:50am
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The two cases on the left sure look like they were longer term corroded before firing this last time due probably to not being cleaned after previously shooting them. BP fired cases Must be cleaned in soap and water, preferably in a tumbler with ceramic or SS pins.
????
beltfed/arnie
  
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Re: busted brass
Reply #14 - Sep 13th, 2024 at 11:43am
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I had that with a 71 Mauser. Duplex load, grease lubed bullet. Brass was clean, if not actually new. Broke them down and found them corroded inside, and the powder had to be dug out.

Anyone interested in a 71/84? I'd rate it 'Arsenal new'.
  
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