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busted brass (Read 1890 times)

oughtsix Global Moderator ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 1274 Location: Columbus Joined: May 31^st, 2009	busted brass Sep 12^th, 2024 at 4:52pm	Print Post
	The novelty of this phenomenon has worn off. Left to right are Jameson (JBA) .43 Spanish, JBA 43 Span, Starline 50 -110 (resized to 43 Peabody fireformed in 44-77) , JBA 44-77, a normal UMC 44-77. I lose 2-3 cases per trip to range. I thought it was only Jameson brass but it is not limited to theirs. I'm shooting it in an original rolling block with 83grains of 2Fg velocity is in the 1330fps range the cases come apart below the bottle neck (JBA 44-77) and I think they were all annealed before forming. All but one of the broken bits came out with a cleaning rod. any ideas?

	Life Member ASSRA, OGCA & TSGC I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters........ Frank Lloyd Wright
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oneatatime Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3871 Location: Rocky Mountains Joined: Oct 30^th, 2011	Re: busted brass Reply #1 - Sep 12^th, 2024 at 5:30pm	Print Post
	Chamber swabbed dry after wiping? Neck (or no) sizing only?


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16111 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: busted brass Reply #2 - Sep 12^th, 2024 at 5:38pm	Print Post
	oneatatime wrote on Sep 12^th, 2024 at 5:30pm: Chamber swabbed dry after wiping? Neck (or no) sizing only? Yes, looks like what happens with a wet chamber if not dried after pushing a wet patch down the bore.

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oughtsix Global Moderator ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 1274 Location: Columbus Joined: May 31^st, 2009	Re: busted brass Reply #3 - Sep 12^th, 2024 at 5:48pm	Print Post
	Bore wiper squeegee followed by dry patch, every few shots I wipe out the chamber area with a dry 50 cal mop. no neck sizing, pp bullets slip fit- tight but the slip in. when the cases come apart, the flatten out the bottled area and push the case into the rifling. You can see it on the one in the middle. That one was harder to get out than the rest

	Life Member ASSRA, OGCA & TSGC I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters........ Frank Lloyd Wright
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art_ruggiero Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1088 Location: CT Joined: Dec 14^th, 2008	Re: busted brass Reply #4 - Sep 12^th, 2024 at 6:12pm	Print Post
	be careful with compression keep it to .030 or less art


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Bluedog Participating Member Offline Posts: 36 Joined: Jan 14^th, 2024	Re: busted brass Reply #5 - Sep 12^th, 2024 at 6:39pm	Print Post
	I have had issues of this nature as well, The gentleman that pointed out bore swabbing are spot on I bore mop every shot after cleaning and rotate bore mops to keep relatively dry. But I have a hunch you may benefit from measuring your brass, they are likely to need a trim. I have found brass used for paper patch needs to be monitored for length from time to time. Just a thought Jason


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JackHughs Oldtimer Offline Posts: 657 Location: Riverbank Joined: Sep 27^th, 2008	Re: busted brass Reply #6 - Sep 12^th, 2024 at 8:17pm	Print Post
	Hydrogen embrittlement? JackHughs

	The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. W.B. Yeats
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burntwater Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 402 Location: Michigan Joined: Feb 5^th, 2018	Re: busted brass Reply #7 - Sep 12^th, 2024 at 8:46pm	Print Post
	JackHughs wrote on Sep 12^th, 2024 at 8:17pm: Hydrogen embrittlement? JackHughs Not likely as this condition is only found mostly in stainless steel alloys, some titanium, and a few specialty steel alloys. And the physical failure characteristics are much different Rick. After digging into some old metallurgy books I need to say to Jack that though it’s very very unlikely it is nevertheless a known failure of brass especially in tension. So I really should modify my original statement. Sorry Rick
	« Last Edit: Sep 12^th, 2024 at 11:38pm by burntwater »

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oughtsix Global Moderator ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 1274 Location: Columbus Joined: May 31^st, 2009	Re: busted brass Reply #8 - Sep 12^th, 2024 at 9:29pm	Print Post
	art_ruggiero wrote on Sep 12^th, 2024 at 6:12pm: be careful with compression keep it to .030 or less art No compression, in this case, powder is above the bottle neck, .06 poly wad. Did it with compression card wad and a grease wad,too

	Life Member ASSRA, OGCA & TSGC I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters........ Frank Lloyd Wright
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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7271 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: busted brass Reply #9 - Sep 13^th, 2024 at 2:20am	Print Post
	Are you keeping track of case strength? I haven't shot BP for quite a while but, when I did, it was common in 32/40, to get case separation, shooting breech seated. Because of it's slow burn and compaction, BP creates friction on the case walls, at ignition and that pulls on the case walls, allowing separation. I'll say it happened about 1 out of 100 shots, shooting a single case. You might try polishing the interior of the case, down to where they are separating.

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oughtsix Global Moderator ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 1274 Location: Columbus Joined: May 31^st, 2009	Re: busted brass Reply #10 - Sep 13^th, 2024 at 7:35am	Print Post
	frnkeore wrote on Sep 13^th, 2024 at 2:20am: Are you keeping track of case strength? I haven't shot BP for quite a while but, when I did, it was common in 32/40, to get case separation, shooting breech seated. Because of it's slow burn and compaction, BP creates friction on the case walls, at ignition and that pulls on the case walls, allowing separation. I'll say it happened about 1 out of 100 shots, shooting a single case. You might try polishing the interior of the case, down to where they are separating. I'm new to black powder, never heard of testing for case strength. How you you do that? Always something new.... shooting fixed, btw

	Life Member ASSRA, OGCA & TSGC I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters........ Frank Lloyd Wright
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KFW Oldtimer Offline Posts: 555 Location: Powell Wy. Joined: Dec 18^th, 2016	Re: busted brass Reply #11 - Sep 13^th, 2024 at 8:06am	Print Post
	I zoomed way up on your picture, looks like corroded cases in that neck area? Did these cases get a good cleaning before loading? Also your picture makes it look like you have different rim thicknesses.


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rgchristensen Frequent Elocutionist Online Posts: 1091 Joined: Jan 2^nd, 2014	Re: busted brass Reply #12 - Sep 13^th, 2024 at 8:18am	Print Post
	KFW wrote on Sep 13^th, 2024 at 8:06am: I zoomed way up on your picture, looks like corroded cases in that neck area? Did these cases get a good cleaning before loading? Also your picture makes it look like you have different rim thicknesses. Since he’s not sizing the cases, they should headspace on the shoulder OK. Length measurements should tell if the cases are annealed too soft and are stretching. CHRIS


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beltfed Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1752 Location: Central Wi Joined: Dec 20^th, 2007	Re: busted brass Reply #13 - Sep 13^th, 2024 at 9:50am	Print Post
	The two cases on the left sure look like they were longer term corroded before firing this last time due probably to not being cleaned after previously shooting them. BP fired cases Must be cleaned in soap and water, preferably in a tumbler with ceramic or SS pins. ???? beltfed/arnie


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wesg Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 276 Joined: Sep 13^th, 2004	Re: busted brass Reply #14 - Sep 13^th, 2024 at 11:43am	Print Post
	I had that with a 71 Mauser. Duplex load, grease lubed bullet. Brass was clean, if not actually new. Broke them down and found them corroded inside, and the powder had to be dug out. Anyone interested in a 71/84? I'd rate it 'Arsenal new'.


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