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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 4227 powder (Read 2902 times)
gnoahhh
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4227 powder
Jul 22nd, 2024 at 11:20am
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The internet is abuzz with news that Hodgdon has discontinued 4227. The dirty rats.
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: 4227 powder
Reply #1 - Jul 22nd, 2024 at 1:13pm
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AAARRRGG! First they discontinue 4759, one of the best ever powders for Schuetzen style loadings, and now that they’re sure that powder is pretty much all gone, they discontinue arguably the second best powder for the purpose!  Are they trying to kill our game?  Angry
Froggie
  
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Re: 4227 powder
Reply #2 - Jul 22nd, 2024 at 2:21pm
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If factual, that's unfortunate as many of us have used 4227 for years & years. BUT - can anyone say Win 296  Wink
  

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bnice
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Re: 4227 powder
Reply #3 - Jul 22nd, 2024 at 2:31pm
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Is that H4227 and IMR4227?
  
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Schutzenbob
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Re: 4227 powder
Reply #4 - Jul 22nd, 2024 at 2:50pm
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OK, there was Dupont Schuetzen, then Sporting Rifle 80, then 4227 and 4759, and so I'm hoping there'll be another comparable powder to take the place of 4227, although I used to get good results from AA#9. Hmmm.....
  
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.22-5-40
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Re: 4227 powder
Reply #5 - Jul 22nd, 2024 at 2:52pm
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Back around 2015, Hodgson transfered mfg. Of H4227 over to IMR...and dropped the H.  At the time I was concerned as that was my go to powder for .22 hornet and .38-55.  I spoke with them and was told the "new" IMR was in fact the original H4227 powder.
Just got off the phone  with Hodgdon....was assured that their IMR 4227 was not being discontinud.



  
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jhm
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Re: 4227 powder
Reply #6 - Jul 22nd, 2024 at 4:56pm
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Thank you for your phone investigation...




JMH
  
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Re: 4227 powder
Reply #7 - Jul 22nd, 2024 at 5:07pm
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So, the sky is not falling again?
  

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marlinguy
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Re: 4227 powder
Reply #8 - Jul 22nd, 2024 at 5:14pm
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Happened last year when Hodgdon said they were no longer offering H4198 that I love for large rifle cases! I panicked and tried to find an 8 lb. jug to no avail. I called Hodgdon and was told they still sold IMR4198 and that it is the exact same powder. So I ordered an 8 lb. jug, and it's working fine!
I've learned not to react too quickly, or panic before going to the source. The internet is alive with "the sky is falling" info!
  

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Green_Frog
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Re: 4227 powder
Reply #9 - Jul 22nd, 2024 at 6:25pm
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Well, I’m old enough that I won’t be shooting many more years.  A four lb jug should last the rest of of my life (to go with the 6-8 lb of 4759 and the 20 lb of H-108). Ledball persuaded me to shoot some H-108 in 32-40 back in the day.  He said 4759 was a passing fad, not knowing how soon H-108 would disappear.  I guess between the three (or maybe just 2) I will have powder for as long as I’m able to shoot.
Froggie
  
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Re: 4227 powder
Reply #10 - Jul 22nd, 2024 at 7:20pm
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Lil Gun has been a good substitute to 4227.......Try  it....
  

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.22-5-40
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Re: 4227 powder
Reply #11 - Jul 22nd, 2024 at 7:45pm
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I have found vihtavouri N110 to be cleaner burning and slightly more accurate in the .22 Hornet than H4227.
  
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gnoahhh
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Re: 4227 powder
Reply #12 - Jul 22nd, 2024 at 7:49pm
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.22-5-40 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2024 at 2:52pm:
Back around 2015, Hodgson transfered mfg. Of H4227 over to IMR...and dropped the H.  At the time I was concerned as that was my go to powder for .22 hornet and .38-55.  I spoke with them and was told the "new" IMR was in fact the original H4227 powder.
Just got off the phone  with Hodgdon....was assured that their IMR 4227 was not being discontinud.





That's comforting, on the face of it, but I wonder why Hodgdon lists it as "discontinued" behind all their 4227 load listings on their on-line data center?
  
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Myers
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Re: 4227 powder
Reply #13 - Jul 22nd, 2024 at 11:35pm
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I don't understand the big fuss. There are better powders that measure excellent in a Harrels. As Randy mentioned 296 works good. 300MP is my go to powder for the 32-40. I guess my 8# metal can of 4227 from Canada is now worth a mint!
  
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gunlaker
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Re: 4227 powder
Reply #14 - Jul 23rd, 2024 at 12:04am
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Hodgdon does not list imr-4227 as discontinued on their reloading data site.  It does list h-4227 as discontinued though.  This has been the case for quite a while.

Chris.


  
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Re: 4227 powder
Reply #15 - Jul 23rd, 2024 at 2:38am
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If you do a search for either H4227 or IMR 4227, you should come up with a old thread, from about 8 yrs ago.

It was documented in that thread, that Hodgdon replace IMR 4227 with the Australian made H4227 BUT, kept the IMR 4227 name. A profit oriented change.
  

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Re: 4227 powder
Reply #16 - Jul 23rd, 2024 at 3:10am
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Here, I did the leg work:

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By my research, the change was made, some time in 2013
  

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gnoahhh
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Re: 4227 powder
Reply #17 - Jul 23rd, 2024 at 8:26am
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At the end of the day I'm not convinced that a large conglomerate that controls the availability of a favorite powder to have my best interests at heart, no matter the assurances. The supply chain of our shooting "expendables" has proven time and again in the last 20 years to be unreliable, and fickle at best. I chose to err on the side of caution yesterday and ordered some 4227 to bolster my my small stash. Yes Chicken Little the sky is not falling but by golly there are some fairly big raindrops hitting the ground.

Other alternatives exist, sure, but personally I have more important things to worry about than starting another whole round of experiments to find which of said alternatives are equal to my old "tried and true".
  
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Re: 4227 powder
Reply #18 - Jul 23rd, 2024 at 4:22pm
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Gun powders and billiards. All the sudden after 150 years 9ball is broken......  Grin
  

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Re: 4227 powder
Reply #19 - Jul 24th, 2024 at 10:02pm
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Jim has left some jugs of smokeless powder H-108,XMR4350 and WC820(f).  Can someone tell me the differences in these powders?
  
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oughtsix
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Re: 4227 powder
Reply #20 - Jul 25th, 2024 at 6:34am
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The little bit of testing I've done indicates to me that H-108 and WC 820 are the same powder.  they meter the same in my Harrels, the look visibly identical  and  they shoot the same velocity  and impact point.    They are the magic unicorn dust of Schuetzen because they are so hard to come by. 

I don't have any  experience with XMR4350

Hope that helps, 

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Re: 4227 powder
Reply #21 - Jul 25th, 2024 at 8:26am
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Ordinarily this is a good resource for powder comparison, site is currently down for update and maintenance. 

It will have photos and measurements of powders, along with other information. It’s the justice department data base for forensic comparison and identification of powders.

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Re: 4227 powder
Reply #22 - Jul 25th, 2024 at 5:57pm
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CindyL wrote on Jul 24th, 2024 at 10:02pm:
Jim has left some jugs of smokeless powder H-108,XMR4350 and WC820(f).  Can someone tell me the differences in these powders?


Cindy,

First, I'm sorry for your loss.  Jim was one of a kind and taught me a lot.  IIRC, Jim was very careful with his powder as he felt tiny differences made a big difference on the target.  If he had it set up in bottles ready to go, it should be as consistent as humanly possible.  He sifted his powder, so I would assume WC820(f) would be the fine grade of that powder.

I was shooting H108 and Dale McGee was shooting WC820 right next to me in virtually identical rifles built by Charlie Dell and for all intents and purposes the two powders were the same.

I don't have any experience with XMR4350, but if Jim had it and kept it, it must be good.

Best regards,
Charlie Shaeff
Green Frog
  
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Re: 4227 powder
Reply #23 - Jul 25th, 2024 at 7:53pm
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Thank you so much for your replies.  I have some things that should come back to the Assoc.  Plan on bringing when I get stuff together.
  
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Re: 4227 powder
Reply #24 - Jul 25th, 2024 at 8:38pm
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Thank you Charlie, I appreciate you warm thoughts!
  
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Re: 4227 powder
Reply #25 - Jul 31st, 2024 at 6:22am
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The Australian made ADI AR2205 powder is the equivalent of 4227. This is currently out of production with no anticipated new production or delivery date. Hogdon have previous purchased powder from ADI (Varget for example) so it makes sense that 4227 may be the same and is now in short/ non supply in the US as well.

Disappointing for all of us, regardless of US or AUS.
  
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