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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Stevens 44 with L.C. Cummins scope. (Read 2074 times)
uscra112
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Re: Stevens 44 with L.C. Cummins scope.
Reply #15 - Jun 24th, 2024 at 1:19pm
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The Cummins scopes are so scarce that it's impossible to put a value on them because almost nobody knows what they are.  And if they do, they know they're fragile, not something to bang around hunting the way you can with today's scopes.

That said, I paid $1100 for my rifle, which is approximate same vintage and condition as yours, in 2014.  I can't say if the other GB bidders knew exactly what they were bidding on.  I knew only because there's ad for Cummins in the 1895 Ideal Handbook, and I was curious.

>frnkeore< suggests making some cases, and I second the motion.  The case is a straight cylinder inside, (Stevens made much of this, alleging that shooters were asking for a straight .25-20.) It is only mildly tapered outside.  The only problem is that the proper alloy ("cartridge brass") is not available as bar stock.  This case doesn't get "worked" very much, so that's not a big problem.   

While I think of it, I would love to add your rifle to the database I've been building.  Please let me know the serial number.  I already know or can infer everything else that I normally record.  Private Message if you'd prefer not to broadcast it.  It will be only the second Cummins scope among the 500+ entries.  (I could say that mine wants company.)

Phil


« Last Edit: Jun 24th, 2024 at 1:35pm by uscra112 »  

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Sure shot
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Re: Stevens 44 with L.C. Cummins scope.
Reply #16 - Jun 24th, 2024 at 1:21pm
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Try Rocky Moutain Cartridge for new turned brass,if they are still taking orders.
That's a really nice early model 44!
  
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uscra112
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Re: Stevens 44 with L.C. Cummins scope.
Reply #17 - Jun 24th, 2024 at 2:36pm
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Even RMC is over $5 a piece.   Cry    (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Even so, I'd buy 20 in a New York Minute.  

I've made up loading tools for my .25-25 using a set of tong tool handles and a couple of long universal decapper dies.  My range box mounts a powder measure and scale.  You won't need to FL size that case very often, just "muzzle resize" and load.

« Last Edit: Jun 24th, 2024 at 2:46pm by uscra112 »  

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Green_Frog
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Re: Stevens 44 with L.C. Cummins scope.
Reply #18 - Jun 24th, 2024 at 7:03pm
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Sure shot wrote on Jun 24th, 2024 at 1:21pm:
Try Rocky Moutain Cartridge for new turned brass,if they are still taking orders.
That's a really nice early model 44!


As many brass casting operations as there are out there, would it be possible to “reclaim” brass shells, melt them down, and cast suitable rods to turn into exotic cases?  Just askin’.
Froggie
  
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Re: Stevens 44 with L.C. Cummins scope.
Reply #19 - Jun 24th, 2024 at 7:08pm
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uscra112 wrote on Jun 24th, 2024 at 2:36pm:
Even RMC is over $5 a piece.   Cry    (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Even so, I'd buy 20 in a New York Minute.  

I've made up loading tools for my .25-25 using a set of tong tool handles and a couple of long universal decapper dies.  My range box mounts a powder measure and scale.  You won't need to FL size that case very often, just "muzzle resize" and load.



Outstanding range box! Smiley It was setups like this that first attracted me to Schuetzen and ASSRA.  It’s not just the guns and shooting, it’s the toys and gizmos on the bench!  Wink
Froggie
  
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uscra112
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Re: Stevens 44 with L.C. Cummins scope.
Reply #20 - Jun 24th, 2024 at 9:00pm
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Reclaiming our old brass and melting it down.  Good thought.

The range box is the kind of thing that pistol shooters all had at one time.  I got two at an estate auction many years ago.

The one you see was actually sold as a kit from a small ad in the back of the Rifleman in the '50s and '60s, but the basic idea is older.  They often had a scope mount on the upturned lid.  The shelf the scale is sitting on is actually a shallow box.   Right-side-up there was a kind of rack to hold your revolvers that sat in it.   With everything packed away, and the lid closed and latched, it carries by a handle on top like a toolbox.  

I'm addicted to shooting tools, too.  I'll make them and never get around to using them, like the .25-25 tong tool kit.  Sometimes I'll detail one out in CAD, and never actually take the drawings to the shop.  (This is happening more and more as I age out.  Sad  ) 
« Last Edit: Jun 24th, 2024 at 9:13pm by uscra112 »  

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Re: Stevens 44 with L.C. Cummins scope.
Reply #21 - Jun 26th, 2024 at 10:06pm
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Tonight I made a practice case but left it solid with a 8-32 thread in the center to use as an adjustable seating tool. It did have a better surface finish but apparently my rifle has a fairly tight chamber so I had to stick a screw in the end and chuck it in a drill to polish off a few thousands. And all I have is 320 grit sandpaper at the moment. So maybe later it will get polished better, but it’ll work for now.  Does anyone have pictures of a rifle with offset sights such as mine.   I’m sure I will have to make a front site but would like to make it as close to original as possible.   I’ve tried searching but all I come up with is offset sights for ar15s
  
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Re: Stevens 44 with L.C. Cummins scope.
Reply #22 - Jun 26th, 2024 at 10:55pm
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Good job!  

Yes, Stevens chambers seem to have been quite tight from the factory, and not just the .25-21.  I had quite a time helping a friend with his .28-30 when somebody convinced him that .002" oversize bullets were the way to go in his new CPA barrel.  They wouldn't chamber in either of my originals, either!  Lesson learned.

Then I got into fixing up and making brass for .25 Stevens rimfires.  Same thing.  I actually had Manson grind a reamer to my drawing, which I thought was pretty snug.  When I got a new barrel done with that reamer, I discovered that the loads I was making for it wouldn't go into not one but two really good original barrels I had acquired in the meantime. The factory chambers were even tighter.
  

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Re: Stevens 44 with L.C. Cummins scope.
Reply #23 - Jun 26th, 2024 at 11:18pm
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Never seen an offset sight like that on a Stevens.  Making one  isn't hard.  I've drawn up a "process sheet" for myself to do 44 front sights.  Will email it if you ask.  Let me know what you have for CAD if anything.   

  

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Re: Stevens 44 with L.C. Cummins scope.
Reply #24 - Jun 27th, 2024 at 10:18pm
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I was just able to finish making my brass.  And I threw a set of sights from my marlin 27-s on the 25-21. Until I get the scope back and can make a new offset front.  So now all I’m waiting for is some bullets.   Is the 25-21 safe for smokeless powder or is it still black powder only?  And if smokeless is ok would anyone mind sharing some load data?
  
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Re: Stevens 44 with L.C. Cummins scope.
Reply #25 - Jun 27th, 2024 at 10:46pm
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You get a commendation for being the first person I know of to make brass from solid himself.  

From memory, I was shooting about 6 grains of AA#9 in mine.  Around 8 grains of 4227 is widely used, but didn't do quite as well in my 44-1/2 .25-21.  Quickload says 6 grains of 2400 might work.  Also 10 grains of ReLoader 7.   Those loads are about maximum, not for pressure but for the velocity that a plain base bullet can stand, which is generally held to be 1400 fps.   A hard gas check bullet would allow 10 grains of 4227 before you get close to my arbitrary breech thrust limit.   

Your homebrew brass is probably thicker than OEM, so back off a grain or two and watch your chronograph numbers.  (Quickload says the water capacity of OEM brass is 24 grains.)

About half those charge weights of fast pistol powders will get you a slower velocity, but don't run them up past about 1200 fps, since peak pressures will rise.  You won't blow the gun up, but the link starts to suffer, and eventually the gun "shoots loose". 

90 grains is about the heaviest bullet you can expect good accuracy from in the stock twist.   Do slug your barrel. Stevens wasn't very consistent with their groove diameters. 
« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2024 at 11:01pm by uscra112 »  

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Re: Stevens 44 with L.C. Cummins scope.
Reply #26 - Jun 29th, 2024 at 4:54pm
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I got my bullets in today and was able to shoot a few times in the blistering heat.  It shot slightly over a 1 inch group at 25 yards.  With the large bead front sight and very fine rear buckhorn sight along with my bad eyesight I thought that was pretty good.  I have an older weaver b4 with 2.5x magnifier. I am thinking about making a mount that goes to the original dovetails so I can enjoy the gun until the original scope gets back from being repaired.
  
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