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25-20 SS & the Low Wall (Read 924 times)

Green_Frog Frequent Elocutionist Offline "It ain't easy being green" ASSRA Life #281 Posts: 3990 Location: Lynchburg, VA Joined: Apr 18^th, 2004	25-20 SS & the Low Wall Jun 21^st, 2024 at 6:50pm	Print Post
	I know this is going to sound strange to many of you, but I have only ever encountered two low wall actions that had been stretched from firing. One I know and the other I believe had been chambered in 25-20 SS. Has anyone else experienced or heard of such a phenomenon? Or is it just coincidence? Apparently both were stretched about 50 thousandths or so, leaving the block noticeably “loose” front to rear. Froggie


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Past80 Participating Member Offline Posts: 18 Joined: Oct 21^st, 2020	Re: 25-20 SS & the Low Wall Reply #1 - Jun 22^nd, 2024 at 7:46am	Print Post
	I think I know the problem, have it with you at the match this coming weekend. I want to see it. I'll be there with my daughter Susan


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Bent_Ramrod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1450 Location: Southern Arizona Joined: Feb 8^th, 2006	Re: 25-20 SS & the Low Wall Reply #2 - Jun 22^nd, 2024 at 9:02am	Print Post
	Never saw one myself, although it certainly would be possible if it was fired with a lot of those high-velocity smokeless/jacketed bullet loadings that some were playing with in the 1930s. I briefly had a low wall in .218 Bee that had beads of weld on the back of the breechblock, dressed down to move the block face forward and tighten the headspace. It seemed pretty stable; I passed it along not for that but because I couldn’t see that the caliber offered anything the .22 Hornet didn’t do already.


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Green_Frog Frequent Elocutionist Offline "It ain't easy being green" ASSRA Life #281 Posts: 3990 Location: Lynchburg, VA Joined: Apr 18^th, 2004	Re: 25-20 SS & the Low Wall Reply #3 - Jun 22^nd, 2024 at 9:32am	Print Post
	Past80 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2024 at 7:46am: I think I know the problem, have it with you at the match this coming weekend. I want to see it. I'll be there with my daughter Susan I no longer have either one in my possession, but since I’m building one with a new barrel on an original receiver shell engraved by Ken Hurst, I didn’t want to build something that would potentially damage that action. Looking forward to seeing you and Susan next weekend! Froggie


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rkba2nd Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1895 Location: earth Joined: Feb 16^th, 2009	Re: 25-20 SS & the Low Wall Reply #4 - Jun 22^nd, 2024 at 4:11pm	Print Post
	Fifty thousandths is at least a smidge over max headspace. Case separation just waiting for the wrong time.

	rkba2nd
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Green_Frog Frequent Elocutionist Offline "It ain't easy being green" ASSRA Life #281 Posts: 3990 Location: Lynchburg, VA Joined: Apr 18^th, 2004	Re: 25-20 SS & the Low Wall Reply #5 - Jun 22^nd, 2024 at 5:33pm	Print Post
	rkba2nd wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2024 at 4:11pm: Fifty thousandths is at least a smidge over max headspace. Case separation just waiting for the wrong time. Those were my thoughts as well. If the block still has room to rattle with a round chambered under it, that’s the beginning of a problem! Froggie


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Green_Frog Frequent Elocutionist Offline "It ain't easy being green" ASSRA Life #281 Posts: 3990 Location: Lynchburg, VA Joined: Apr 18^th, 2004	Re: 25-20 SS & the Low Wall Reply #6 - Jul 26^th, 2024 at 4:26pm	Print Post
	A little more history; the first of these I encountered about 30 years ago at the old gun show in Roanoke, VA. The late Jim Hallis and I bought a nondescript low wall and shared it to be split up for parts. Since we didn’t shoot it, we didn’t notice the stretch until we started to actually use the receiver for a build. The second one came to me as a stripped receiver, so it wasn’t until Charlie Dell and I began to fit a new Green Mtn barrel that the stretch was noticed. My plan now is to take the barrel Charlie fitted long and put it on the proper spec receiver Ken engraved for me. I’ll shave off the rear face of the barrel to get proper headspace then rework chamber depth, rim depth, and the extractor cut for proper fit. It should go without saying that hot rod loads will never be allowed anywhere near this little treasure. Froggie


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waterman Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2820 Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain Joined: Jun 9^th, 2004	Re: 25-20 SS & the Low Wall Reply #7 - Jul 28^th, 2024 at 5:40pm	Print Post
	When did the high velocity loads first appear? I've always thought of the 25-20 SS as a lead bullet cartridge.


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830singleshot Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 402 Location: Texas Joined: Feb 11^th, 2007	Re: 25-20 SS & the Low Wall Reply #8 - Jul 28^th, 2024 at 8:01pm	Print Post
	The 25-20, both wcf and the S.S. version were factory loaded with 86 grain bullets at moderate pressure and slow twist barrels. Fast forward to today's world and the same cartridges are now using 1-10 twist and 120 grain bullets. That's a whooping 40 % increase in bullet weight in the same tiny case. I'm not sure what the difference in pressures are but I'm guessing more than the % bullet weight increase. To me, it's one of those things that just because you can do it doesn't mean you should. It cost the same for all the parts and labor, only the action is more expensive

	J. Scott McCash&&New Braunfels, TX&&830-237-2376&&jsmccash@yahoo.com
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Bent_Ramrod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1450 Location: Southern Arizona Joined: Feb 8^th, 2006	Re: 25-20 SS & the Low Wall Reply #9 - Jul 29^th, 2024 at 9:23am	Print Post
	There were articles in the American Rifleman in the 1930s where people were trying to modernize the .25-20 SS in the same way that the .22 WCF was turned into the .22 Hornet. This was doubtless suggested by the similarity in case shapes and proportions. As well, of course, by the craze for more and more velocity in general that was all the rage back then. 60 gr Winchester or Remington jacketed hollowpoint bullets were used with stiff charges of smokeless powders to achieve velocities estimated in the 2400-2500 ft/sec range. Allyn Tedmon, one of these experimenters, warned that this was not for Stevens Tip-ups or 44s, but in a well breeched-up falling block, the souped-up 25-20 “Express” cartridge was a great prairie-dog caliber. It may be that a few people got overenthusiastic with their powder charges pursuing this endeavor. A Highwall or Stevens 44-1/2 would have better support for the breechblock and have no issues beyond drastically shortened brass life, whereas a Low Wall might be a little marginal and develop headspace problems over time. These may be the occasional stretched or cracked receivers that are found in the search for actions to rebuild. Eventually, the setback would stop, and if no cracks develop, setting the barrel back and using more rational loads would take care of the issue. R. F. Sedgeley built a lot of sporter rifles on softened early Springfield receivers. If the proof charges he fired in them set the bolt back slightly, the barrel was turned in a half or full turn and rechambered.


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Green_Frog Frequent Elocutionist Offline "It ain't easy being green" ASSRA Life #281 Posts: 3990 Location: Lynchburg, VA Joined: Apr 18^th, 2004	Re: 25-20 SS & the Low Wall Reply #10 - Jul 29^th, 2024 at 11:44am	Print Post
	Speaking of modern ammo, some of the newest factory ammo I have are Winchester Silvertip rounds, definitely jacketed with that softer nose. Those will mostly get pulled for the brass though as I’ll need some good brass which I will clean and anneal to use in my finished build. Froggie


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