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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Barrel turning help (Read 2536 times)
bohemianway
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Barrel turning help
May 21st, 2024 at 7:37pm
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The usual story, I am turning a Stainless blank and the first two inches go great but it goes into resonance and holding the center with my hand calms it down for a few more inches then all hell breaks loose. 360 rpm, 0.004 inches/rev feed, 0.015 depth of cut (0.030 on diameter). Right now I am turning it straight and could use a follower rest until I start to offset the tailstock and do the final taper cuts. Any clever fixes?

Thank you,
Charles
  
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curdog
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Re: Barrel turning help
Reply #1 - May 21st, 2024 at 8:25pm
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What is the tool nose radius you are using?
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Barrel turning help
Reply #2 - May 21st, 2024 at 8:27pm
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Are you using insert tool bits? Use a 1/64R tool bit. That may help and double the feed.
  

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SBoomer
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Re: Barrel turning help
Reply #3 - May 21st, 2024 at 8:56pm
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Charles,
A SHARP hss toolbit ground with a smaller nose radius cuts much more freely than carbide. 

Smaller low hp lathes were not made to plow with carbide. Not sure what you have. 

An old trick for cutting long bars is to hang a cast lead doughnut on the barrel. Let it freely hang and eventually it will wear a saddle notch in itself and quit rotating. The same deadening can be accomplished with a footlong pure lead bar held on top of the rotating barrel midspan. The nice part of using the ring is it it handsfree and the toolpost just pushes it ahead of the cut. 

Tighten up the compound and crosslide gibs as much as possible to still use the dials even if a little tight. 

Bring the compound back on the crosslide until it is fully supported on the ways…..no overhang.

Mimimize tool overhang.

Is stinks but a high sulphur cutting oil is your friend. I use dark thread cutting oil sold at box stores. I use it straight.

Frank already suggested a higher feed…thats good advice. When roughing a barrel I typically use .020”/rev. 

Make a chip hook! DO NOT USE YOUR FINGERS. Having spent my entire career in machine shops I have seen far too many needless cuts and finger amputations.

A steadyrest midway allows MUCH heavier/quicker cuts to be made.
  
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SBoomer
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Re: Barrel turning help
Reply #4 - May 21st, 2024 at 9:00pm
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After EVERY pass, loosen the tailstock center and relieve the thermal expansion of the barrel. If the barrel gets hot let it cool back to room temp.
  
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bohemianway
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Re: Barrel turning help
Reply #5 - May 21st, 2024 at 10:07pm
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I am using Kenemetal inserts (have to check the radius but it is generous). The lathe is a lightly used Grizzly g4003g which is not the most rigid. THank you for the suggestions I will try them starting with the most convenient. HSS and High Sulfer 1st.

CHarles
  
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LRF
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Re: Barrel turning help
Reply #6 - May 22nd, 2024 at 6:19am
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Charles change over to HSS tool bits and experiment with the shape and relief angles. HSS uses less cutting force then carbide, IMO. (No science in that opinion just experience) Use a small tip radius as already suggested, .010" max. Vary your depth of cut, feeds  and RPMs to find the optimal combination. And as the barrel diameter changes, so also the combination will. Barrel turning is an art form of experience. And a robust lathe! That little Grizzly can do the job with understanding of its limits.
  
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j_c_johnson
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Re: Barrel turning help
Reply #7 - May 22nd, 2024 at 7:45am
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I was taught by my Grandfather CC Johnson who turned many barrels. He used a South Bend 10 Heavy lathe. He turned with a hss bit in back gear at 160 rpm. Using this procedure with cutting oil and moderate cuts I have no chatter.
  
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Deadeye Bly
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Re: Barrel turning help
Reply #8 - May 22nd, 2024 at 8:08am
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For anything longer than about 20" I use a steady rest in the middle. Blend in the two turned sections with a lathe file. It works on tapered barrels as well as just roughing one down straight. This is on a South Bend 9" with HS tools. The 1/3 HP motor just doesn't work well with carbide tools
  
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John Taylor
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Re: Barrel turning help
Reply #9 - May 22nd, 2024 at 10:57am
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I use carbide inserts and grind the tip so there is no radius and a good chip breaker. Cutting edge at 90 degrees to the work. Most of the time I'm running at 900 RPMs. Sometimes increasing the feed will take care of the chatter. A steady rest is important and sometimes it needs to be close to the cut and moved about every 4". Last week I did 5 barrels which had three different tapers and integral sight ramps. After the tapers were done the barrels went to the mill for the sight ramps. Usually I do the threading and chambering first before cutting the barrel to length, just in case I mess up cutting the threads and chamber.
  

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n.r.davis
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Re: Barrel turning help
Reply #10 - May 22nd, 2024 at 11:15am
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I'm old and slow and so is my Barrel Lathe,  9" South Bend.
Starting from a Unturned Blank I find they are all Barrel Shaped, larger in the middle and the centers from the Maker are no where's near in alignment with the bore.  So I square up the ends and put true centers in, a Job and a Half to do using a Center Rest.
First cuts may not be full diameter cuts as a Thin side Thick side cut will set up vibration.  Once the O.D. is trued up then I can do full cuts usually around .020 deep using HSS and running in Back Gear about 60 rpm with the Tool Bit a tad above Center, use a 6" Rule to tell.  Fairly Course Feed, the Lathe will let you know with a Paint Brush lightly resting on the barrel for cutting out.  Dead Center in the Tailstock.
Now some things to consider..
Live Centers are nice but it's another Moving Assembly.
Never get the Barrel Hot enough to cause the Cutting Oil to Smoke, though I like the smell!  As the Barrel heats up it gets longer and if it can't lengthen then it will Bow.
Two steady rest are nice as you can get close to one in front of the carriage and slip one behind the carriage then pull the front one.

Turning the Taper by Offsetting the Tailstock,  I'm assuming you're going to be using Centers on Both Ends.  Really look into using "Ball Centers" as they allow more Bearing.  Think about offsetting the Tailstock, the Center is still on line with the Bed but your Barrel is Not.

All of the Above is from the School of Hard Knocks!
Good luck, you've got a lot of knowledge from the other replies 👍🏻 David
  
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uscra112
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Re: Barrel turning help
Reply #11 - May 22nd, 2024 at 7:53pm
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j_c_johnson wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 7:45am:
I was taught by my Grandfather CC Johnson who turned many barrels. He used a South Bend 10 Heavy lathe. He turned with a hss bit in back gear at 160 rpm. Using this procedure with cutting oil and moderate cuts I have no chatter.


I haven't OD turned but two barrels.  Also using a 10" Heavy.  Very slow RPM worked best for me.   I observe that the plain bronze spindle bearings and belt drive dampen better.  Had a Monarch 10EE once, which had roller bearings.....it gave me fits at times. 

BTW I once had to study up on lathe chip formation for a project.  I don't see that the energy required would be any different, HSS or carbide, given identical edge form and support.

Once saw a very old horizontal boring mill with a deep groove worn in the bar.  Operators had been hanging a weight on a rope to dampen vibration.   
« Last Edit: May 22nd, 2024 at 7:59pm by uscra112 »  

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bohemianway
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Re: Barrel turning help
Reply #12 - May 23rd, 2024 at 5:45pm
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Well, what a mess, but a 35 chunk of lead and negative raked old carbide, 0.020 depth of cut, 0.004 feed, 220 RPM. I wish I knew how to cut lead to shorten the chunk from 3.5" long to 2" long (it is 6" dia OD and bore of 2.5").

Charles
  
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Re: Barrel turning help
Reply #13 - May 23rd, 2024 at 9:33pm
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Cast it. About a 2”id x 4”od x 1 1/2 thick. Use PURE soft lead. Chainsaws cut lead wonderfully. A tablesaw would work well on that pc too. Wear goggles.
  
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Re: Barrel turning help
Reply #14 - May 23rd, 2024 at 10:13pm
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A good old fashioned hand saw will make short work of chopping soft lead into smaller pieces.
  
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