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rifleman
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40-70 SS guidance needed
Apr 27th, 2024 at 12:57pm
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I have an original Hepburn Match A in 40-70 Sharps straight. Have a box of brass and dies coming. I have never had a .40 anything.

I just slugged the bore, which is excellent,and starting from muzzle the slug went in and after an inch I pushed it through with almost no resistance. So the bore is choked. Slug measured .4095”-.4100”

Is this bore Grossly oversize?
Any tips for slugging from the breech end or do you guys do a chamber cast to get your measurements from that end?

Thank you for your advice.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 40-70 SS guidance needed
Reply #1 - Apr 27th, 2024 at 1:17pm
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Not oversized at all, as those I own or have owned were all in the .410"-.412" groove diameter. 
I do a chamber cast of any new old rifle I buy, but slugging at the muzzle is the first thing I do. usually the same or slightly tighter at the muzzle, so both aren't bad to compare.
.40 caliber old single shots are my favorites, and I own quite a few from as short as my .40-50SS to a .40-90 Ballard. Most are either .40-63/70 Ballard, or .40-70SS in my Hepburn.
I've loaded everything from a 300 grain RCBS CSA bullet to a Lyman 410 grain Snover design in my .40-70, and all shot well. But for long range I prefer the Snover, or the RCBS CSA 370 gr. bullets with 4198 powder charges.
For a Match A I'd go with the lighter 300 gr. bullets as it will work well to 200 yds., and be easier on the shoooter.
  

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rifleman
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Re: 40-70 SS guidance needed
Reply #2 - Apr 27th, 2024 at 1:53pm
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Thanks Marlinguy. I should do a chambercast anyway I suppose.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 40-70 SS guidance needed
Reply #3 - Apr 27th, 2024 at 2:05pm
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rifleman wrote on Apr 27th, 2024 at 1:53pm:
Thanks Marlinguy. I should do a chambercast anyway I suppose.


May not change how you load, or which bullets to shoot. But I do like looking at the castings and seeing the rifling, and the angle from chamber to rifling used.
I made a mess one time doing a chamber cast of my Match B Hepburn in .3-40 B&M! I cut a corner and decided I'd cast the chamber without putting any duct seal in the extractor cut! Man did that go sideways when I overfilled the chamber and it went into the cut! I had to tear it all apart and put it in my barrel vise to spin the barrel off. Fortunately the Cerrosafe is so soft it sheared while removing the barrel, and allowed it to unscrew. Then cleaned it with a dental pick, and reassembled. Never short cut a chamber cast again!
  

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SBoomer
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Re: 40-70 SS guidance needed
Reply #4 - Apr 27th, 2024 at 4:39pm
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Marlin, 
Next you make a mess like that……and Ive done it several times(all taking a shortcut) slowly pour a teapot full of boiling water on it. It will melt and flow with no damage to any metal. The metal will dry almost instantly.
  
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rifleman
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Re: 40-70 SS guidance needed
Reply #5 - Apr 27th, 2024 at 7:37pm
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Chamber cast done. No disasters…this time.
  
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Re: 40-70 SS guidance needed
Reply #6 - Apr 28th, 2024 at 12:07am
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I think that the next step would be to find a few bullets for the 405 Winchester sized .412 and fire a few.  Then see what diameter your fired brass is and pick a bullet mould that casts that diameter so that you can finger seat the bullets.  A custom neck expander from Buffalo Arms is probably in the works if you need to expand the brass to allow the cast bullet to seat without shaving.  If you will be shooting blackpowder I highly recommend the compression die that Shiloh Sharps makes as it uses the end of the case to set the compression finished depth.  I mostly shoot at 50 and 100 yards with my Hepburn in 40-70 SS as my eyes don't like the 200 yard target at all.  My favorite breech seated load with a 330 grain bullet is a peasley 21 grains of IMR 4227 as it has no recoil and shoots great.  25 to 27 grains of #5744 works good for fixed loads with bullets from 330 to 400 grains.  I have some stout loads for hunting with V133 powder ( I had a bunch and decided to try it) and with IMR 4064 I have a 330 grain paper patched bullet shooting 2150 fps in my 1875 Sharps 40-70 SS.  It lets you know you pulled the trigger!  The biggest problem that I think most people have when starting with a 40-70 SS is to find brass with the correct rim thickness.  The problem I have with my Hepburn is that the primer backs out sometimes and you have to pull back the hammer and fire on the empty case to reseat the primer so that the action will open.  I have mostly cured that by using the CCI 34 primers made for simiauto rifles as they have a tough cup.  My Hepburn firing pin hits very very very hard!  It is my favorite rifle to shoot at the bench and I hope you enjoy yours.  Tom
  
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rifleman
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Re: 40-70 SS guidance needed
Reply #7 - Apr 28th, 2024 at 5:08pm
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Thanks for information Tom. Thats a good place to start. I will maybe post a WTB and see if someone has a dozen bullets the right size I can buy and try.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 40-70 SS guidance needed
Reply #8 - Apr 28th, 2024 at 6:12pm
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I use 4198 and 23.0 grains with my lighter 300 and 350 grain bullets. That's under 19,000 psi chamber pressure and safe for older rifles.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: 40-70 SS guidance needed
Reply #9 - Apr 28th, 2024 at 6:17pm
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SBoomer wrote on Apr 27th, 2024 at 4:39pm:
Marlin, 
Next you make a mess like that……and Ive done it several times(all taking a shortcut) slowly pour a teapot full of boiling water on it. It will melt and flow with no damage to any metal. The metal will dry almost instantly.


Great idea! I was tempted to use my heat shrink gun, but decided on removing the barrel.
  

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Re: 40-70 SS guidance needed
Reply #10 - Apr 29th, 2024 at 9:51am
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You might want to check the barrel twist. If it's slower than 1 in 16 bullets longer than about 1.2 inches long will give you fits if you shoot past 300 yards, and especially so if there's any type of crosswind.
  
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rifleman
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Re: 40-70 SS guidance needed
Reply #11 - May 7th, 2024 at 1:13pm
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Ok back to the top since I have another question as I see I am going to have to learn to paper patch.

Groove diameter is .411, so how do you guys measure BORE DIAMETER. If using pin guages can anyone give there best guess of what bore diameter may be based on the groove measurement so I can start with a few gauges?  Thanks

  
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marlinguy
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Re: 40-70 SS guidance needed
Reply #12 - May 7th, 2024 at 2:12pm
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rifleman wrote on May 7th, 2024 at 1:13pm:
Ok back to the top since I have another question as I see I am going to have to learn to paper patch.

Groove diameter is .411, so how do you guys measure BORE DIAMETER. If using pin guages can anyone give there best guess of what bore diameter may be based on the groove measurement so I can start with a few gauges?  Thanks



I use gauge pins as the bore diameters can vary slightly. But back many decades ago Bill Brophy told me factory records stated the bores on all .40 caliber barrels were .397"
I honestly never really cared what the bore diameter is, as groove diameter dictates what bullet I'll use.
  

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