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ssdave
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Found a drawer full of chucks today....
Dec 12th, 2023 at 10:25pm
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Looking for something, and found a drawer full of Jacobs and Albrecht chucks I had for my old lathe and mill.  Combined them with the drawer of chucks I have laid out for my new equipment, and I may have a problem with too many chucks.

Occurred to me that one of the disadvantages of the 11" Logan is a facet of one of it's biggest advantages.  The advantage is that it has a large through hole on the head stock.  The disadvantage is that it's some odd taper than nothing fits except original equipment.  So, I have no way to mount a jacobs chuck in the headstock except to use a collet and a straight shank arbor.  Might have to machine a spindle to Jacobs taper adapter just to run a Jacobs chuck.   I use a Jacobs chuck relatively often, for things like drilling through holes in buttstocks.

Also, the MT3 tapers I have are all too big for the MT2 tailstock on this machine.   

So, I need to weed through these and either set aside or dispose of the ones that no longer work.  Real question is whether I should keep them for potential future machines.   


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Mike_Hunter
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Re: Found a drawer full of chucks today....
Reply #1 - Dec 13th, 2023 at 9:06am
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SSDave

The Logan should have a standard taper headstock... either MT4 or MT5. 

Not sure what putting a drill chuck in a headstock buys you except for holding very small parts.  If you go that route, just put a chuck with a straight shank in your chuck jaws. 

Respectfully

Mike

  

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kensmachine
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Re: Found a drawer full of chucks today....
Reply #2 - Dec 13th, 2023 at 9:10am
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the shanks are removeable and the shanks and do not cost much. if you dont care about the shank cut it off drill and tap it i find a find thread works the best a picse of pipe some all thread some good washers and they pop right out. if you want to save the shank weld a stud on the end and grind if off when done. I have found that the Jacobs wedges almost never work. Screw on jacobs spindle chuck's where only made in 1" and 1 1/2" I think.   ken
« Last Edit: Dec 13th, 2023 at 9:17am by kensmachine »  
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ssdave
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Re: Found a drawer full of chucks today....
Reply #3 - Dec 13th, 2023 at 10:38am
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Mike,  it is really odd on the 11" and 12" Logans, for some reason they went with a proprietary taper instead of a morse.  I use a jacobs chuck for holding drill bits to drill stocks, and occasionally to drill other things.  I can easily chuck one of the straight shank ones into a 3 jaw I guess, or since I have a complete set of 5C collets and a closer, could just hold bits in a collet.  Just different way than I've done in the past.

Edit:  I see I can order a spindle adapter from the proprietary spindle to #3 MT for $157 from Logan, so that would also be an option.   

Ken,  I have a drawer full of spindle adapters also with many different morse tapers and different jacobs tapers and threads, along with mt to mt adapter sleeves.  I've changed them out many times on chucks.  If they are too stuck to remove otherwise, just open the chuck jaws fully, drill a 5/16" hole in the back of the chuck, and there's a hollow space inside the chuck behind the taper. 
Fill that hole with oil, put a 5/16" drill rod in the hole in the chuck, and strike it with a hammer.  The hydraulic force easily removes the spindle adapter.

Not being a machinist, I don't have a lot of knowledge and experience to draw upon, still think in terms of doing things the way I've always self learned, using the tooling I had.  It's kind of a new thing to me having a wider range of tooling to choose from, and learning better ways to do stuff.
« Last Edit: Dec 13th, 2023 at 11:00am by ssdave »  
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SBoomer
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Re: Found a drawer full of chucks today....
Reply #4 - Dec 13th, 2023 at 11:40am
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+1 on headstock drill chucks! I have a 59B on my 9” South Bend. It is probably my most used chuck. The reality is you will seldom need more than 2 or 3. Keep the best, sell the rest.

Sell your excess and turn them into primers Wink
  
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Mike_Hunter
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Re: Found a drawer full of chucks today....
Reply #5 - Dec 13th, 2023 at 11:48am
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Quick look on the Logan site: Logan 11" Lathes prior to Serial Number 52576 used an internal taper of 1.5730" per foot. after Serial Number 52576 and all 12" and 14" Lathes used an internal taper of 0.8381" per foot. Not too hard to make an adaptor. 

An easier solution; since the Logan’s spindle nose is threaded, get a 2 ¼ TPI backplate and mount a 5C collet chuck on it, just a thought. 

Are you using your lathe as a makeshift drill press?  How do you hold parts in the tailstock?? 

As for the drill chucks,  nice collection… if those are USA made Jacobs “Ball Bearing” chucks, I much prefer them to the Albrecht. The Albrecht’s are pricier, and advertised as being more accurate but won’t hold  nearly as well as a Jacobs Super Chuck,  spin a drill bit in a Albrecht a couple of times and the jaws are toast, then fairly expensive to replace. 
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Mike Hunter
  

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ssdave
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Re: Found a drawer full of chucks today....
Reply #6 - Dec 13th, 2023 at 1:12pm
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Thanks, Mike,  I have a collet chuck for 5C's for this lathe, so that will work good.  Just not what I did on my previous lathes; used the Jacobs chucks a lot.  I had a MT to Erickson collet chuck, but limited number of collets so the Jacobs covered for it.  Now I have 5C's by /32'ds from 1/8" through an inch, so will probably get used to using those instead of a Jacobs for drilling.   

It's been a bit of a learning curve going from my 10" Atlas lathe, a couple of chucks, a few odd bits of tooling to having everything I can think of in tooling, just have to figure out how and where to use it.
  
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Mike_Hunter
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Re: Found a drawer full of chucks today....
Reply #7 - Dec 13th, 2023 at 2:16pm
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Have you considered ER collets & ER Collet chucks?  Lot more forgiving to clamping size than 5C. The  clamping range for a 5c collet is +/- .001,  the clamping range for an ER collet is 1 MM (.039 inch). 

I only use 5C collets for grinding ops or when I have to machine a collet for a custom-made part. 

  

Mike Hunter
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ssdave
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Re: Found a drawer full of chucks today....
Reply #8 - Dec 13th, 2023 at 2:35pm
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That makes sense, Mike.  I have two sets of ER collets that came out of the machine shop purchase, so I have that option if I make or buy an appropriate chuck.  I have square and hex collet blocks for the ER's if I recall correctly, and maybe something for the mill, but nothing that will work on the lathe.  My old collet chuck for the limited # of collets I had was for an MT2 or 3.  I need to dig it out and see.  Making a sleeve from the Logan to MT is probably a thing that I should do soon.

I'm still figuring out how and what to apply of the tooling I acquired to the tasks I want to do, and the machines I have.

  
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HarrisHighwall
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Re: Found a drawer full of chucks today....
Reply #9 - Dec 13th, 2023 at 3:10pm
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use a 5c collet to hold the drill in lathe headstock

less runout than drill chuck
also allows short projection on drills with long tangs 
or gun drills
extend a couple times as hole gets deeper
also permits air through 

apply imagination and stand back

  
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n.r.davis
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Re: Found a drawer full of chucks today....
Reply #10 - Dec 13th, 2023 at 6:42pm
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I find it handy to have Extra Chucks for my Tailstock.  3 different sizes for Center Drills come in handy.  If I'm making a few parts that need Drilling and Tapping I set up Chuck's for each tool.  Lots quicker to pop another Chuck in the Tailstock instead of changing out the tool using one Chuck.  One "Trick" that I've never seen on a U Tube video is when drilling a deep hole, rather than crank the Quill back and forth to clear chips, unlock the Tailstock, clear the chips and then slide the Tailstock back.  Worth a Nickel! David
  
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Re: Found a drawer full of chucks today....
Reply #11 - Dec 13th, 2023 at 7:42pm
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Or mount it in the tool post - much easier.
  
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Re: Found a drawer full of chucks today....
Reply #12 - Dec 13th, 2023 at 8:15pm
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Check 'em all for runout and sell the worst ones. 
 
I was amazed to find that the one I've been using for years on my little "mill" runs out .006" TIR.  Which explains why I couldn't get a .1875" reamer to ream to size.  Never occurred to me that a Jacobs chuck could be that bad.     
  

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Re: Found a drawer full of chucks today....
Reply #13 - Dec 14th, 2023 at 9:26am
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Keep in mind that drills and drill chucks are roughing tools and not precision instruments, and drills will always cut oversize. 

If I want to get fairly precise with a reamer use a good collet, BUT…check the TIR of the collet first.  Had a brand-new imported set that was terrible,  .005 runout.  Tossed them all, bought a set of Crawfords.  Also keep in mind that they have +/- reamers,  my set has + .001, -.001 and dead on.   

So drill undersize, initial ream with the minus reamer check size, and final ream.   

For  precise holes (+/- .0005) in a home shop, you will need to bore it, then lap it with a brass lap. 

.006 on a chuck… not great, but not terrible depending on the chuck size, I’ve got a 20N that I would be surprised if it was less than .010, but again it’s a roughing tool and I only use it for drill bits larger than ½ inch. 
  

Mike Hunter
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Re: Found a drawer full of chucks today....
Reply #14 - Dec 14th, 2023 at 9:42am
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A Jacobs chuck doesn't have to be that bad.  I bought a "precision" chuck with integral R8 arbor that was specified as .00078", and actually runs about .0015" TIR in my cheapie benchtop machine, when I grip a .2155 gage pin and measure at an inch out from the jaws. 

I'd have expected the spindle itself to have added more than that, but am pleased that it doesn't.
  

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