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4570mike
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Ballard Extractor
Dec 1st, 2023 at 4:35pm
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I have a Cody Ballard No 7 in 32-40. Very nice shooting rifle.

However, when loading, it's very easy for the new cartridge to slip past the extractor while entering the chamber.  This requires the loaded shell to be pried out or knocked out with a cleaning rod.  This is necessary as the extractor will not jump past the rim if one were to just close the action.

The situation can be avoided if the action lever is partially closed bringing the extractor close to the home position before the cartridge is inserted.

Of course, during the "heat" of a Match, this action setting is often overlooked causing the #@%^&!!* situation.

Any thoughts on correcting this?  When the action is fully open, the extractor is firmly pushed rearward.  The extractor has very little sideways movement, but seems to rotate back too far.

I have a couple other Ballards and this problem is not an issue with them.

Mike.


  
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Skalkaho
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Re: Ballard Extractor
Reply #1 - Dec 1st, 2023 at 6:38pm
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One thing you can have handy is a dentist pic.I heat and bend A 90 degree hook towards the handle where its thicker to grab the case. Was at a match guy saw my hook...said he'd never needed one...10 minutes later he rushes over and asks to borrow it! LOL
  

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4570mike
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Re: Ballard Extractor
Reply #2 - Dec 1st, 2023 at 8:26pm
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I made one out of a piece of coat hanger that kinda works.  Still a pain.

Looking to fix the extractor to eliminate the problem.

Thanks for your reply.

Mike.
  
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uscra112
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Re: Ballard Extractor
Reply #3 - Dec 2nd, 2023 at 6:55am
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I'm glad (I guess) to see that others have had this problem.  I have a .22 with the side extractor that does this constantly, and have thought black thoughts about whoever it was that built the particular gun.      

Last time I had it out I used an old crochet hook that somehow appeared in my junk box. 

The .28-30 I just built myself doesn't do this at all.  Go figure.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard Extractor
Reply #4 - Dec 2nd, 2023 at 12:03pm
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Normally the little #3 .22's with their two piece sliding extractors are the most reliable of any Ballard rifles. The sliding extractors seem to never fail loading or extracting. But I do own Ballard rifles that began life as CF rifles and were converted to .22RF and those can be very finicky if the person building them didn't rework the extractors to not travel too far back. 
There is a bit of a pointed edge on one side of the Ballard CF extractors, and the edge rides in the receiver so when the block lowers that edge pushes the extractor rearward. I personally have never run into one that extracted too far, and have had some that didn't pull a case as far back as I liked. I do have one Ballard with a Stevens Pope barrel that someone built up the pointed spur so far that it made disassembly nearly impossible to slip the extractor out as you drop the block. After fighting it to get it apart, I removed a good amount of that point to closer match an original, and the gun takes down great now, and still extracts fine.
If the extractor moves too far, then removing a very small amount off the edge of that point will reduce how far it moves at full opening. You'll need to just remove a few thousandths and test it, then repeat until it stops where you want.
On some of my old Ballards with some wear, the rims can slip past a worn extractor. I simply push the extractor back with the tip of my thumb as I'm loading a cartridge to constantly keep the extractor ahead of the rim until it's about halfway closed, and then it doesn't slip past. I have this problem with some oddball cartridges where my donor brass has slightly smaller rims too; so I've gotten good at making sure rims don't slip past.
  

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uscra112
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Re: Ballard Extractor
Reply #5 - Dec 2nd, 2023 at 12:20pm
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The Ballard I was talking about was built up by somebody with the pivoting extractor, not the sliding one that OEM .22s had. The  frame is not from a #3.  It has a good barrel; would shoot 1MOA off bags with high grade ammo in calm air and a scope, so I haven't had any reason to mess with it.  I was just adding my .02 to the complaints register.
  

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bobw
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Re: Ballard Extractor
Reply #6 - Dec 2nd, 2023 at 12:29pm
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What Vall said is what I would have first suggested because you say the extractor is pushed firmly rearward.  To me this suggests the lever is starting to rotate the extractor to early thus opening it too far.

The other thought was on the lever return.  I am not a Ballard expert and don't even have mine here to check, but maybe Vall or others can give us their thoughts on what I'm about to say.  
It appears to me that the lever should return somewhat to the rear after the extractor fully extends.  See the step on the link in my photo.  I say this because the self cocking feature of the hammer.  I appears when the lever is opened the hammer is pushed past the half cock notch and then the main spring should push the hammer and the lever back, when released, until the notch catches the sear.  This motion would also relieve the pressure on the extractor.
  
My Mini Fraser rook does exactly this.  When the lever is pushed down it cocks the hammer, pushes the safety on and extracts the shell.  At this point, if you were to try loading a new round it will go right past the extractor.  But, when you let up on the lever the breech block raises, because of the main spring, until the sear catches the hammer, which pushes the extract back into position for loading where a shell can not get past it.
Thought?  Could parts being worn and this return not taking place be the issue with some of these center fire guns?
Bob
« Last Edit: Dec 2nd, 2023 at 12:35pm by bobw »  

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Chuckster
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Re: Ballard Extractor
Reply #7 - Dec 2nd, 2023 at 1:29pm
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FWIW, Ballard is the only action I know of that uses gravity to hold the breech block loading position, no springs, no cams.
With the rifle approx. level, action open, the center of gravity of the lever holds the loading position. Rotate lever forward to extract.
Release lever, swings back, releases extractor, raises block slightly and pushes extractor slightly forward to catch cartridge rim.
Another unique Ballard feature. Odd shaped lever or worn extractor face could mess this up.
Chuck
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard Extractor
Reply #8 - Dec 3rd, 2023 at 12:26pm
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Yes, the Ballard lever does travel further after the extractor has moved in it's full arc. And because as Chuck mentioned it is held open by just gravity, the angle the gun is pointed with the lever open can sometimes allow the lever to hang at less than fully open, and cause the breech block to rise. Pointing the muzzle down at about a 45 degree or more angle always keeps the block fully open, and extractor fully back. At the bench it's easy to open the lever fully and keep it open as you chamber a cartridge, but when I'm shooting off cross sticks I hold my hand under the action to help the lever stay forward when open, and not have the block rise a little and block part of the chamber when reloading.
Once you're familiar with a Ballard and shoot them a lot, you tend to just go through the process naturally without thinking about it.
  

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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
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Re: Ballard Extractor
Reply #9 - Dec 3rd, 2023 at 12:30pm
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uscra112 wrote on Dec 2nd, 2023 at 12:20pm:
The Ballard I was talking about was built up by somebody with the pivoting extractor, not the sliding one that OEM .22s had. The  frame is not from a #3.  It has a good barrel; would shoot 1MOA off bags with high grade ammo in calm air and a scope, so I haven't had any reason to mess with it.  I was just adding my .02 to the complaints register.


Yes, that's what I was referring to when I mentioned the .22RF Ballard rifles that had been converted from CF actions. I have I think 4 of them myself, and all done by well know master gun makers of the late 1800's. But even those done by the best can be finicky to load and not let the rims slip past the extractors. Even my fairly new Cody Schoyen Ballard in .22LR is not done with a 2 piece extractor, but the typical CF extractor. But it's actually the nicest and easiest to load .22LR in without quirks.
  

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