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Bottle cap revisited
Nov 2nd, 2023 at 12:14pm
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I’ve went one round with this topic once already but I’m changing things up a little and including some sketches and ideas that have developed.  I’m hoping to inspire others to make tooling and play the game.  This may sound a little bold or arrogant but until one has shot a target such as this and measured the actual distance from center, a center mark that you placed, accuracy takes on an entirely different meaning.   
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The Bottle Cap Match game in some parts of the country is still very active and the interest I’m hearing in my locale is motivating me to do something about it.  In a haphazard condition I’ve made a slight variance to the original game but nothing I’m going to lose sleep over – the original discs sound like they were 1.65” diameter or so, mine came out to be 1.604” diameter.  I believe this variance was caused by a measurement I made on the measuring device from an original kit.  The table, or platen that the shot disc is placed on to measure the hole’s distance from center, had a diameter of 1.604”.  To get a true zero for the original setting, it made sense to make the discs this same exact size so that’s my reasoning for the disc discrepancies.  My first punch and die set I made produced a .042” thick disc, 1.604” diameter, as did my second set.  So now, the future punch and die sets aren’t going to wander from those dimensions.  The measuring devices I’m making are all getting the same size platens also.
I made the first die to fit an older Lachmiller reloading press.  This was a C-frame design that I have had kicking around my mess with no real intended purpose.  The bore on the top had a bushing in it to accept a 7/8” die body but when I removed the bushing, the opening was a 1.25”-18 thread.   I thought this would work nice as the stem on the punch then could be hefty.  It works well but probably overkill.  The next die set I made to fit a RCBS Rock chucker, with the threaded bushing removed.  That’s a 1.25”-12 thread condition – still plenty of room for the stem on a punch.  My first couple of dies were made all one piece, a slot for the card stock – cut with a slitting saw.   Not a terribly difficult operation, but definitely not as simple as the next version.  On the third punch, I decided to make a ring that was removeable, could be re-sharpened or replaced.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Bottle cap revisited
Reply #1 - Nov 2nd, 2023 at 12:18pm
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.  In this design, the punch body was milled with a recess permitting the card stock with a specified width (1.75”) to be slid through for punching.   These punches were originally made flat on their face and it took considerable pressure to push a punch through the paper.  I set the punch up in my mill vise and canted the punch about .060” from one side to the other and faced it with a fly cutter.  This allowed the punch to go in with an angled cut during the stroke… a much easier push.   
I haven’t hardened any of these parts, but the material I’ve used has been out of my scrap box - heat-treated and stress relieved 4140 with an average hardness of 34Rc so I’m sure within a few thousand cards, things will get dull and my name will be used in vain. 
   
Next, I'll share some details on the measuring device and what my recent build looks like.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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SBoomer
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Re: Bottle cap revisited
Reply #2 - Nov 2nd, 2023 at 7:56pm
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Greg,
That is just plain cool! Nice machining. Do the cards get printed with a bullseye? Seems like a while back someone posted the actual measuring machine.
  
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Re: Bottle cap revisited
Reply #3 - Nov 3rd, 2023 at 1:53am
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Boomer,
Thank You.
The attached link shows the first device I made for measuring these discs.  I have a few more of these in the works - as this part of the game is what really slows up the procedure.  When 15 shooters have discs to measure it takes time to process everything so I plan to have three more measuring devices in the mix. 
AS for the markings on the disc... that is the responsibility of the shooter, they get to put their own mark as close to center as they want to...   
We shot a match tonight at a new venue a few of us joined, six of us showed up for it tonight.  I've forgotten how much fun and how humbling this is. 
Greg
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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bobw
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Re: Bottle cap revisited
Reply #4 - Nov 3rd, 2023 at 11:10am
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Greg,
This thread is getting my blood stirred up to get going making these tools.  I think some around here would enjoy this.
Nice work…as usual.
Bob
  

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Re: Bottle cap revisited
Reply #5 - Nov 3rd, 2023 at 1:27pm
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Reminds me of when I was in high school some of the guys I ran around with used to have target shoots using bottle caps for targets, a nickel a shot and the winner took the pot. We were using open sighted .22 rifles at 35 yards.
  
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Re: Bottle cap revisited
Reply #6 - Nov 3rd, 2023 at 3:50pm
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we had a great time last night, even though i lost 2 whole dollars.i got a new scope mounted so i am out to win my money back. it is a great facility and very close. i see being a regular at it shooting a lot.    tony<><
  
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Re: Bottle cap revisited
Reply #7 - Nov 4th, 2023 at 9:57pm
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As a former 'tool and die' guy ...

'Dish' the punch instead of angling it. Balances the lateral force that wants to push it to one side, which knocks the edge of the punch and die eventually resulting in burrs. Punching paper/cardboard, maybe not a concern.

'Dish' was done running the punch across the wheel with the surface grinder ... which I guess was the 'Z' axis in relation to the spindle ??????

Idiots ....

Probably millions of 'lead frames' for high power tele-com transistors, Varian, etc.
  
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Re: Bottle cap revisited
Reply #8 - Nov 17th, 2023 at 1:02pm
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here's an update, I took some more of Tony's money last night Grin
The final score for the winning target wasn't that great, just enough.  Total for the overall on it was just barely under an inch, .996" for twelve shots...
The excuse I came up with for such a poor score was when we showed up the range was quite cool so we had the heater running and the air currents really messed with the group size.
GT
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Bottle cap revisited
Reply #9 - Nov 17th, 2023 at 6:26pm
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You need a scoring device like A.O. Bremer made for the Stich targets. They were a big black disc for 200 yd and it was for closest to the center. They had at least 2 sizes (irons, any).
  
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Re: Bottle cap revisited
Reply #10 - May 24th, 2024 at 9:13am
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We've refined some of our processes and I've cast the "hook" in several directions playing this game.  We generally shoot at least once a week at a neighboring community's indoor range, last night was no exception.  Nine individuals showed up to share in the frustration.  Tony's first target was very good but it was all downhill after that, he didn't even come up with any new, good excuses... Grin 
For the folks I help set a hook in at the Greeley show, here's a holder a few are making for holding the discs, saves time and tape...
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Bottle cap revisited
Reply #11 - May 25th, 2024 at 4:43am
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Oh my, but that's a lot of work.  Admittedly, it's precision and better than I can do.   

But get some Necco wafers (sugary cheap candy), paste them on a dark piece of cardboard, and set them out at some difficult distance.  They will be a challenge offhand at 25 yards, and the benchrest guys can try them at 200.
  
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Re: Bottle cap revisited
Reply #12 - May 25th, 2024 at 9:11am
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Waterman,
That it is, but the following for "shootin' caps" has been fairly intense, and addicting.  I showed up one evening and thought a change might be nice, had some 50' silhouette and schuetzen targets with intention of having a different match, most were going to walk if we weren't shooting caps. Wink  I haven't broached the subject since.  Grin

A different shoot happens mid summer at one of the other clubs.  It follows close to your wafer shoot, it's called the candy match.  The MD glues up a pile of targets with Lifesaver candy covering the bulls.  The object is to send a 22lr slug through the hole without breaking the candy.  They shoot it at 25, 50 and 100 yds.  Scoring is substantial for centers that don't break a Lifesaver at each distance... (+25 @25, +50 @50, etc. 1 pt for keeping it in the rings, 5pts for being on center and breaking the lifesaver) Luck has a little play in this but not as much as one thinks - from some of the scores.
GT
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Bottle cap revisited
Reply #13 - May 25th, 2024 at 10:59am
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Greg showed me how his "bottle cap" disc system works at the CGCA show and I think it's great! Yes, it would take a machinist in the mix to make the punch setup to make the discs, but after that it's something any club or range could use and have fun with.
  

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