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gwahir
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441/2 firing pin
May 22nd, 2023 at 11:22am
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Should the movement of the hammer be stopped by it contacting the block or by it contacting the firing pin?
  
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n.r.davis
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Re: 441/2 firing pin
Reply #1 - May 22nd, 2023 at 5:55pm
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Chuckster replied to my question on Burr raised by F.P. on Breach Block.  Hammer stopped by Breach Block, bit of Inertia Travel in F.P.  I've seen a Ballard Block Broken in front of the F.P. and wondered if Hundreds of Taps eventually broke the Block.   As you say, so little time, so much to learn. David
  
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bobw
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Re: 441/2 firing pin
Reply #2 - May 22nd, 2023 at 6:04pm
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This was brought up in a different thread a few days ago but, sorry, I can’t find it.

I like the hammer to hit the block, maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t like the pin stopping against the front of the hole or cross screw.  This way the pin does not contact the block at the front, nor does it hit the cross retaining pin, basically just floating. Also, when the hammer hits the block the firing pin should be at full protrusion.
Bob
  

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bobw
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Re: 441/2 firing pin
Reply #3 - May 22nd, 2023 at 6:06pm
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The thread David mentions is the one I was thinking.
  

Robert Warren
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gwahir
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Re: 441/2 firing pin
Reply #4 - May 22nd, 2023 at 7:30pm
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bobw wrote on May 22nd, 2023 at 6:04pm:
This was brought up in a different thread a few days ago but, sorry, I can’t find it.

I like the hammer to hit the block, maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t like the pin stopping against the front of the hole or cross screw.  This way the pin does not contact the block at the front, nor does it hit the cross retaining pin, basically just floating. Also, when the hammer hits the block the firing pin should be at full protrusion.
Bob


Yes. There is a bit of a price to be paid however! Here is a hammer that has hit a block many times.

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There is also a burr on the front of the hammer. There is no damage to the block evident at this time, although there may have been at some point.

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The pin has been, long ago, bushed to a 3/16" diameter but the back of the pin is too long; the hammer no longer contacts the block - just the pin.

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I intend to shorten the back of the pin so the block will stop the hammer fall and the pin will float. I will also add a retraction spring. 

Gentlemen, Thanks.

« Last Edit: May 22nd, 2023 at 7:49pm by gwahir »  
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gwahir
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Re: 441/2 firing pin
Reply #5 - May 25th, 2023 at 11:54am
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Concerns about the hammer hitting the block, and the firing pin contacting it's retainer pin, only apply if the rifle is dry fired. Live fire is a very different situation. As the primer is being indented, it absorbs the force of the forward movement of the hammer and the pin. When the primer indentation reaches about 25 thou, it contacts the anvil within the primer, and can go no further. This stops the firing pin before it can reach it's retainer. Depending on the timing between the firing pin and the hammer, it will stop the hammer before it contacts the block, or will have absorbed almost all of its energy, leaving little to contact the block.

Dry firing may not be a real good idea!
  
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John Taylor
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Re: 441/2 firing pin
Reply #6 - May 28th, 2023 at 9:52am
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I have seen several guns with broken firing pin from dry firing. The breach block on many guns are not hardened and will mushroom with continued hammer blows. Firing pins should be made out of tough steel, I use spring steel or piano wire which are hard enough to hold up. Firing pin on center fires should protrude about .060", on rim fires about .030". Usually the firing pin stops at a shoulder inside the breach block. The primer on a center fire or the rim of a rimfire acts as a cushion which keeps the firing pin from breaking and the hammer from getting deformed. There are very few guns that can be dry fired without damage, I'm thinking the 1911 which has a spring to stop the travel of the firing pin.
  

John Taylor   Machinist/gunsmith
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uscra112
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Re: 441/2 firing pin
Reply #7 - May 28th, 2023 at 1:54pm
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Personally I set the firing pin up so the hammer stops on the breechblock before anything else touches, and I try to get the notch for the retaining screw/pin to touch before the body contacts the front of the channel.  Only then do I trim the point for proper protrusion.  I read time and again about people putting springs into a 44-1/2 to aid retraction, but I haven't, and have had not any troubles.  Admittedly I don't shoot 44-1/2s very much; the old 44 and Favorites are my playground.
  

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