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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Webley project (Read 4642 times)
GT
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Webley project
Feb 26th, 2023 at 10:23am
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I won’t go into the details of the Webley history, that’s for interested individuals to pursue and Mr. Winfer’s book is a good read.  Some of my descriptions of processes will be boring to folks that aren’t into building these actions, a few others, I hope it helps.  The Webley I’m building is from a casting that Rodney Storie makes and his pattern was from the round block, which is referred to as a rook rifle.  As Wal mentioned, this rook rifle is not a scaled down version like so many of the other rook rifles are, the lever is still the size of the medium and large frame.  The action may be slightly smaller but then the round breech block changes the structure and stress load found in the medium action.  My norm in these builds is a 22rf in the first build followed by a CF of some sort.  A few of the originals were made into 32-40 and 25-35’s but I’m a little hesitant, so it’ll involve some calculations and thought.

Onward with the build at hand.  I began this by scratching surfaces with a file, attempting to come up with a flat or true surface as a reference.  The face of the action came in fairly close to flat with a few strokes of a file.  The bore for the breech block after taking some measurements said we had a little over a .110” to come out – plenty to work with.  A little scratching and comparing with a square to the lever slot I placed the casting in my lathe fixture, rough dialed the bore & face and took a light test cut in the bore.  All appeared well so I continued, bored this to the minor diameter for .850” – 16 thread and proceeded to thread and face the action.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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msellers
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Re: Webley project
Reply #1 - Feb 26th, 2023 at 12:10pm
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This will be yet another build to follow with keen interest.  Definitely a historic piece well worth re-creating. 

Mike
  
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gwahir
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Ve gets too soon olt und
too late shmart.

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Re: Webley project
Reply #2 - Feb 26th, 2023 at 12:57pm
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Wonderful! I'm in! I will be following closely.
A couple questions. Is the breech block hole at a right angle to the bore?
Could you post a diagram of internal parts?

Anyway, thanks.
  
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Re: Webley project
Reply #3 - Feb 26th, 2023 at 2:27pm
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Thanks again GT for sharing... looking forward to the adventure!
Jeff P
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Webley project
Reply #4 - Feb 26th, 2023 at 5:27pm
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Wasn't the 32-40 a standard factory offering for the round block 1902? I handled one in the past and it made me salivate.
  
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GT
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Re: Webley project
Reply #5 - Feb 26th, 2023 at 10:27pm
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Following this, the lower tang was next.  The key slots in the action were cleaned up with a file, the surfaces inside the receiver were scratched, scraped, inked and scraped some more.  I made a small test block for all this, slightly smaller than the rough cast tang body.  The fitting of this is slow and tedious but much of the workings of this action from my observation, hinges on a good fit here.  While working on this task, I’d change things up and worked on the lever.  Rodney cast this with small indents where holes are supposed to be drilled and tapped.  I filed a surface relatively flat and proceeded to the surface grinder, grinding each side a little at a time until things were mostly cleaned up.  Next, I chose the screw sizes I wanted to work with, for the hammer and sear I went with a #8-32, ¼-28 thread for the lever screw and a #5-40 for the lever catch.  Bouncing back, the lower tang went in slightly snug, making even contact on the key slots and the sides.  The action had dimples cast where the retaining screws were located and they came out fairly close to the center of the keys.  I then drilled and fit the trigger in the lower tang, but it’s having some difficulty breaking the sear engagement.  It may require a little more fitting – lever to trigger guard to bring things together.  An interesting couple of features found in the Webley, the hammer and the sear are housed in the lever and the trigger is housed in the lower tang.  The contact between the trigger and sear is a small radius surface on the sear, while the engagement part of the trigger is flat.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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bobw
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Re: Webley project
Reply #6 - Feb 26th, 2023 at 11:26pm
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Definitely looks to be a challenge Greg.  But I know you will get it working.   
Been studying pictures of the originals and it’s going to be a good looking gun when done
Bob
  

Robert Warren
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GT
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Re: Webley project
Reply #7 - Feb 27th, 2023 at 12:07am
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Thanks for the comments, 
I've read where the 32-40 was a factory offering and I heard something or read something about how the British proofs had it rated far more conservative than what our Sammi specs are.  Same with the 25-35 - like you I fondled one of these at the Vegas show years ago, it appeared to be an original in this caliber and I needed a drool bib at the time.
gwahir,
From the details I could come up with the breech block it goes in at a 6° angle, close to a high wall's design. In a later post I'll have some sketches, mine but a close copy from what I saw in Wal's book.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Webley project
Reply #8 - Mar 1st, 2023 at 9:39am
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A feature of this Webley that is new to me, (or at least a memory jog) but I’m finding it common to several British actions, a screw in the action frame just rear of the lever screw becomes a point that cocks the internal hammer.  The other feature this screw performs, it limits how far the lever opens…  When I finished making, installing/fitting that screw for this action so the hammer cocked, the breech block only has about .400” worth of travel.   Not an issue for a 22rf but it is a short stroking head scratcher getting there – how’s it going to work for a larger case?  This will take a little more study when I go there.  The attached photo shows the trigger to sear engagement (flat to round) and then how the sear mates to the hammer.  The area in front of the hammer pivot rides on the cocking screw.  The white painted dots were drilled and reamed for the pivot screws.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Webley project
Reply #9 - Mar 1st, 2023 at 10:16am
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I always enjoy seeing Greg’s work! I learn a lot especially about fixtures and work holding. Cheers Richard
  
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bobw
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Re: Webley project
Reply #10 - Mar 1st, 2023 at 11:16am
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Richard, I also find the work holding as interesting as the gun building of Greg’s.

Greg, I feel for you on the lever opening issue.  The round block Sharps I’m working on, I had similar issue with the breech block travel and how far the lever opened.  Then I threw in the lever operated extractor and thing just got more complicated.   
Bob
  

Robert Warren
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Re: Webley project
Reply #11 - Mar 1st, 2023 at 11:29am
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Greg, probably a stupid question but where is the safety on this action?  I hadn’t thought about it until you showed the trigger group picture.  The one set of pictures I have does not show a tang safety which I would have thought a given the way parts are configured.  For that matter, the pictures I have don’t show anything on the frame that looks to be a safety.
Bob
  

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Re: Webley project
Reply #12 - Mar 1st, 2023 at 12:37pm
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Bob,
The only one I've ever seen a safety on was in a hornet caliber and it was a tang safety.  Never saw the internals so I'd guess it blocked the trigger?  I may adapt something for this build as I don't really have plans of putting a tang sight on it, but I think my CF build will use a tang sight so I may not include a safety.  Safe would be action empty and breech open.
Greg
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Webley project
Reply #13 - Mar 1st, 2023 at 1:05pm
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Thanks Greg.  I thought it might be one of those secret British things that I was missing!  Wink
Bob
  

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Re: Webley project
Reply #14 - Mar 1st, 2023 at 2:36pm
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There is a .240 flanged built by H&H floating around out there with a round block and a tang safety. I have held the rifle. The .240 always seemed like quite a bit of cartridge for that action but Holland thought it fine and it passed Nitro Proof. 

Neat build Greg.
  
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