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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Webley project (Read 4658 times)
GT
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Re: Webley project
Reply #30 - Mar 15th, 2023 at 1:07am
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I roughed out the shape in the bandsaw and have chose to work from one end, finding the stock in this blank as I go (I’ve let the duplicator sit this one out).  I have the action mostly inlet as seen in the photos and the roughing has begun.
There’s a quarter rib in the works for this assembly and I picked up a set of Ruger #1 style rings for this build to fit to the rib.  I’m not planning any type of iron sights for this so the stock is being set up for using a scope.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Webley project
Reply #31 - Mar 15th, 2023 at 2:11pm
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Liking what I'm seeing on this build GT!
Thanks again for sharing Smiley
Jeff P
  
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Re: Webley project
Reply #32 - Mar 22nd, 2023 at 12:50am
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To change things up and give myself a break from wood thing, I spent some time with a barrel blank I planned to use.  Before I could do that though I needed to have a close dimension for the tenon.  I took some measurements from the action face to the roughed face of the breech block.  I had been lucky when I sat the blank up and rough machined it.  The dimensions from being square were about .003” left to right and .005” top to bottom.   Better to be lucky than good, but it seems the more I do this the luckier I get…   Placing the block in a toolmakers vise on the surface plate and sweeping it with a dial took a few attempts but it came in fairly close- corrections inclusive.  To the surface grinder it went to true things up a little further.   My final reading from the action face to the breech block when at battery was less than .001” L to R but nearing .002” top to bottom – I’m going to live with that. 
I generally try to part a stub with the mfg. details off the end of the barrel – most times it’s about an inch of material.  From this I’ll cut a sample chamber in it also, similar to what I’ll cut in the actual barrel. I’ll true up the face of this stub, lap it, and use it on the surface plate for a cartridge length gage – for the times I feel froggie and want to sort my ammo.  I’ll also leave the mfg. markings on it so it helps old minds remember what it was – yes, I stamp the underside of the barrel too but sometimes it’s a couple months before I get around to it and memory isn’t what it used to be...  In this case, it is a Bartlein barrel, 1:16, .217/.222” Stainless, 5 groove.  I’m aware that the ends of the barrel may be of a different size than the barrel is but it’s probably a lot closer than most of the other options one uses for a gage.   
I cut the rim fit about .005” in short of target, rough bored the chamber using a boring bar to within about .002 from reamer dimensions while I had this barrel chucked up.  I’m installing a sliding extractor in this and will have to go back in and finish things when I get to this stage, room to work is nice at that point.
For those a little more observant, while I had this breech block in the small vise and fairly close to square to the barrel, before the final grinding I set the assembly in the jig borer and drilled the small through hole for the firing pin... There's a small hole apparent in the ground surface
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Webley project
Reply #33 - Mar 23rd, 2023 at 11:43pm
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SBertram wrote on Mar 1st, 2023 at 2:36pm:
There is a .240 flanged built by H&H floating around out there with a round block and a tang safety. I have held the rifle. The .240 always seemed like quite a bit of cartridge for that action but Holland thought it fine and it passed Nitro Proof. 

Neat build Greg.


Thanks Steve, I once again stumbled over the build you did for Ben posted on the Nitro Forum a few years back, that was some awesome work.  I think I may build a full size Webley in the future, using one of Rodney's lever and lower tang but building the frame and breech block from scratch.  Then all I have to do is figure out what caliber to make it...
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Webley project
Reply #34 - Mar 24th, 2023 at 12:07am
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Now that the barrel is fit up the next move is to determine what sights are going to be used.  This rifle will probably be used for rodent hunting and if it proves itself in the accuracy and handling department it may see use in a NRL 22 Hunter style of competition – not that a single shot such as this will ever be competitive under time constraints… but it will get a lot of head shakes and grins.  All this said, a rib with means of mounting a scope were in order.  Currently my plans are to make a rib, use screws to attach it, and as mentioned previously, cut dovetails and pockets for Ruger #1 style of rings.  The scope in mind is a Night Force with a 30mm tube and 90 minutes of vertical travel.  The vertical travel on a parallel base won’t get me to the required distances needed so I will make this rib with 40 MOA built in.  (.66 degrees for the trig function).   A lot of extra information for most and unless you do this sort of thing it’s a lot of mumbo jumbo.  In a nut shell, I plan to shoot this little rook rifle at distances beyond its realistic capabilities.  I have a couple other rifles already that get used in a similar fashion and they are surprising.
Haven't had time to get back on this build and I usually like to be able to post processes nearer completion than this.  Maybe next week I can get the rib attached and the scope mounted.  I have the transfer bar/firing pin design well under way along with the springs and extractor under construction so I'll post more on this as it evolves.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Webley project
Reply #35 - Apr 16th, 2023 at 10:56am
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This action was originally designed, built and used with a V-spring that operated the hammer and a small flat spring that gave the sear some tension.  The v-spring is another item in these vintage rifles that I’ve developed a dislike for.   
Using my pieces of spring from an old Chevy ¾ ton I dabbled in changing the design for the hammer spring.  I’ve been machining several springs from these scraps for different actions with good results.  I did a couple of main springs for a Hepburn from these old leaf springs, I thought the temper in these as they were, was sufficient.  I’ve since discovered that not all of them have been.  Some areas of the leaf spring that I cut my little springs out of seemed to perform differently.  The smaller ends of the truck leaves, had considerable temper yet and after machining my little springs out of that section they work well – as is.  I got into a thicker section of the leaf, cut my spring out and I’ve had issues with its function.  I re-heat treated and tempered it in a lead bath, they work much better.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Webley project
Reply #36 - Apr 16th, 2023 at 11:06pm
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Looking good. Just finished a similar operation for the barrel seat on a Maynard.
Straight, not tapered and yours looks better.
Chuck
  
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Re: Webley project
Reply #37 - May 3rd, 2023 at 1:32pm
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I’ve been studying my options of firing pins.  As I mentioned at least once, the angled firing pin does nothing for me, especially in a rimfire.  In this application, my intention is to make it a 6 o’clock firing pin so that alone will lower the centerline position .112” from center.  My layout indicates that that the transfer bar will still have to “reach” 5/16” above the hammer cut in the block.  My hammer cut is 3/8” wide so another half width higher shouldn’t present too much of a issue…  I ground a 5/16 endmill to serve as a slot cutter and create the pocket for the transfer bar to sit in and mate to the firing pin.  I cut a 5/16” wide pocket in the blocks hammer recess for the transfer bar.  Originally I had planned on a full 3/8” wide recess but then there was a chance the sear may interfere with the transfer bar’s operation, the 5/16” cut eliminated this possibility.  The shank on the firing pin is going to be 3/16” so with this hole drilled, I set up and milled the slot and the pocket for the transfer bar pivot area.  The transfer bar will pivot below the hammer strike area while the top of the transfer bar will extend above the firing pin slightly in a milled slot, capturing or enclosing the firing pin.  Movement of the transfer bar will be limited to the space in this slot, thus regulating travel of the firing pin.  My plan is to have approximately .040” of travel which generally is enough.  The firing pin will have a spring pushing it back and in the Webley’s design, the slots in the bottom of the breech block allow the lever to begin cocking the hammer well before the block begins moving.  With no hammer tension on the firing pin, it should back off and clear the fired round – it just has to overcome the transfer bar.  There is room enough to install a spring for the transfer bar if it’s necessary, but that may diminish ignition pressure from the hammer…
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Webley project
Reply #38 - May 3rd, 2023 at 1:34pm
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And a few more pix
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Webley project
Reply #39 - May 3rd, 2023 at 1:42pm
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To share a few struggles I’ve had with this design, my pivot lump for the transfer bar initially was too small for my likings, (actually my son’s likings) so it was back to the drawing board a little.  Locating and drilling the pivot pin hole was a concern of mine, it’s all on angles and radius’s, locating it and having it come out in exactly the right spot, not crowding one side or the other was a concern.  A couple of things were changed.  First being the pocket for the lump was enlarged a little so a new transfer bar was made.  Next, I drilled a small hole 90° from the pivot hole just to use as a locater (later in this rifles life there will be some head scratching as to what the function of this hole is 😉).
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Webley project
Reply #40 - May 3rd, 2023 at 1:46pm
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The pin for the transfer bar to pivot on is a hardened roll pin to begin with but it may evolve to a hardened 1/16” dowel.  The photos show my set up for drilling the pivot hole and for once, everything went as planned – the pivot came out on center of the transfer bar.  The first firing pin was made out of O1 tool steel, trial and error method, no sketches, just turn, stuff, mark and cut, got it first time – better lucky than good I guess.  The second pin will be out of titanium as I’ve had good luck with this material.  The pin retracts about .003 into the block with no pressure and protrudes .043 with pressure applied to the transfer bar.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Webley project
Reply #41 - May 16th, 2023 at 9:26am
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I also don't like angled firing pins, especially with screw in plug from front. You inspired me to build another webley but with a square breech block for higher pressure cartridges. I don't see any problem with machining reciever for square block. Do you have any thoughts on this modification? I've never seen a full sized webley so i don't want to ruin rodneys reciever casting by modifying it willy nilly. When finished the reciever walls will still be thicker than a hiwall.
  
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Re: Webley project
Reply #42 - May 16th, 2023 at 7:27pm
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G.Gil
I was going to do just that, machine out a round to square then I thought different of it - it is a small frame.  Then I was going to do like you do, make it from scratch, but I found an action casting of a square block and got it.  The whole thing is larger so it'll make a nice nitro express. Smiley  This has measurements of a medium according to Mr. Winfer
GT
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Webley project
Reply #43 - May 16th, 2023 at 8:06pm
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Wow GT!
What model action is that? ... Is it one of the large action 1902 Webley's?
JP
  
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Re: Webley project
Reply #44 - May 16th, 2023 at 8:27pm
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Maybe we need to get rodney interested in a large webley casting set. Like he needs another project. I'm waiting for him to do his maynard project into a complete casting set. Or a bullard!
  
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