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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Webley project (Read 4679 times)
oneatatime
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Re: Webley project
Reply #15 - Mar 1st, 2023 at 4:04pm
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My large action has the standard (for the large) auto-on on opening tang safety that blocks the trigger. I've always thought it odd for a single shot in an African cartridge. One more thing to remember for the second shot.
  
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rodneys
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Re: Webley project
Reply #16 - Mar 1st, 2023 at 4:40pm
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Steve I saw a barreled action at a Las Vegas show in 240 had a safety. Perhaps it is the same one. I also made a sketch of the safety. I will try to find it and get your copy Greg.
  
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guilty gil
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Re: Webley project
Reply #17 - Mar 1st, 2023 at 8:18pm
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When i built my 1902 webley, rodney included a drawing of a safety with several drawings of action assembly.
  
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guilty gil
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Re: Webley project
Reply #18 - Mar 1st, 2023 at 8:23pm
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Opps! Didn't notice second page.
  
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GT
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Re: Webley project
Reply #19 - Mar 2nd, 2023 at 12:57am
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Rodney, I may have drawings here but I don't recall them nor have I found them.  This build has been interesting and it's forcing me to pay attention to details and steps.  I appreciate the responses and if someone notices steps out of sequence or I'm missing something entirely, please let me know.   
As most of us do building these, I am several steps ahead of what I'm posting, just a little behind on the documentation.
Gil,   
From what I've heard and seen of your work, I'm a bit of a slacker so don't hesitate to chime in.

I bored the action at a 6° angle from the face of the action, it cleaned up at .940” diameter so I decided to leave the small amount of material in the frame by not taking it to the Webley’s diameter of 1”.  This also allowed me to use a piece of 1” stock for the new breech block, giving me approximately 1/16” of an inch for cleanup and trueing.  I turned the breech block to .939 and saved myself .001” for polishing later.  The new breech block fit well.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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GT
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Re: Webley project
Reply #20 - Mar 2nd, 2023 at 1:16am
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The breechblock that came with the set was cast with the intent of a centerfire firing pin.  My intent with this build is a 22rf.  I looked at a few options to rectify this and didn’t like any my ideas, so I opted the easiest – for me - I made a new breech block.  The original design uses an angled firing pin - I’m not fond of an angled firing pin.  I’ve had some successes in previous actions putting the firing pin in straight and using a transfer bar.  The thoughts for this one are still getting tossed around.  The material for the breech block was a piece of HT/stress relieved 4140, tough but pleasant to work.

The breech block has an interesting relationship to the lever – it’s saddled to the lever and this keeps the breech face aligned to axis of the action, the barrel face does also, but if the tolerances are kept close the barrel to breech block faces can have some clearances to operate.  The relationship between the block and lever were kept to a minimum – slot to lever has a running fit of about .004”.   
The cut for the hammer in the breech block was an interesting setup.  It needed to be square to the lever slot, but the angle calculated out to be 35° from vertical and the lever clearance slot came out to be 45°.   I was lazy in this setup, I have an ultra-precise rotary table and precision vises that would have made this setup simple but I chose to spend time fiddling and measuring, and repeating until it sat in the standard vise correct.
If you notice the paper between the part and the vise jaws, paper compresses a very slight amount (to make up for inconsistencies of the part) when clamped and if it's slightly damp (with WD or toluene) it'll work like a glue. (a 2¢ tip)
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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GT
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Re: Webley project
Reply #21 - Mar 2nd, 2023 at 9:50am
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While working on this breech block I thought a lot about the next few steps.  The lever’s relationship to the action would have to be the next issue to address.  The lever would have to come to battery before any further work could be done fitting the breech block.  Filing and fitting and using considerable Prussian Blue would be the next process, an inside joke about this is called the Smurf process.  For those that know about the use of Prussian Blue, understand it well.  At the end of this process, fingers are stained blue, ears have a tinge of blue, nose, chin, cheeks, pants, shirt pockets, other parts not discussed here easily suffer the blue hue.  Following a few hours in this focus, the lever fits up to the action and daylight between the lever and trigger guard can only be seen in a spot or two if you look closely.  The trigger and sear relationship came together as expected.  The lever catch is the next item to fit… I may have botched this fitment so a new catch may have to be made. Sad
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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idjeffp
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Re: Webley project
Reply #22 - Mar 2nd, 2023 at 7:22pm
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Thanks GT,
Got a good laugh about your smurf process comments!! Still laughing...
JP
  
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Re: Webley project
Reply #23 - Mar 3rd, 2023 at 12:28pm
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I am in awe of anyone who can produce an action from castings.
  
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GT
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Re: Webley project
Reply #24 - Mar 9th, 2023 at 2:09am
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Moving around like I do on these builds, went back to the breech block.  The slots and screws for attaching the block to the lever was the next issue addressed.  The Webley uses a slot on each side of the block for the point of attachment, studying the photos shows the slot being somewhat lengthy and had to ask, does it need to be?  The lever follows an arc in its operation, pivoting from a screw on the end.  Converting this arc motion to a straight line taking into account the angle the breech block sits at was a simple drawing.  The results – it didn’t take much of a slot for the length of motion in my action’s cycle.  The screw threads I used at this attachment is #8-32 or a major of .165”.  I chose to give this slot the travel of nearly this diameter, plus a little extra on each side for a head diameter - .020.  The slot width was made .185”.  Keeping these dimensions close, especially the slot width, minimizes the block “wiggle room” vertically, time will tell upon firing if there really is any advantage.  In Wal’s book, it was mentioned that this was an area of problem in the design.  Considerable torque is made at this point and over time the screws can work loose and the threads are abused.  Going oversize isn’t an option because of the placement.  I concentrated on the fitment of the screws to threads and in final assembly will use a retaining compound to make this a more permanent feature.  Thinking hardening the threaded hole area too.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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rodneys
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Re: Webley project
Reply #25 - Mar 9th, 2023 at 9:12am
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Greg 
   It is coming along real well. I really like your pictures and description. I have located my sketch of the safety on the one I saw in Las Vegas. Attached is the picture and some other notes on the 1902 Webley.
  
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rodneys
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Re: Webley project
Reply #26 - Mar 9th, 2023 at 9:21am
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The one that I copied was a 300 Sherwood. Attached are tracings of the Checkering pattern. Note that there was no butt plate used but straight Checkering in the middle area of the butt stock. The form arm was checkered also.
  
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rodneys
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Re: Webley project
Reply #27 - Mar 9th, 2023 at 9:23am
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Here are my sketch of the firing pin off the original.
  
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GT
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Re: Webley project
Reply #28 - Mar 9th, 2023 at 9:38am
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Thanks Rodney, I've handled one that the butt stock was continuous, no plate, just checkered the wood on the end.  There was even a line carved around making it look like a plate had been added.  I like the punishment - have some horn that may make the plate on mine.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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GT
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Re: Webley project
Reply #29 - Mar 15th, 2023 at 1:02am
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As with any gun build I do, most know that I struggle in the wood department.  It’s not that I can’t do it, I don’t enjoy it as much and time is always an issue.  I need to have time – un-interrupted time to allow me to get into the focus and wood mode. I rarely see more than 30-45 minutes at a time for this – my metalwork has always been in an interrupted mode both here and in industry, focus isn’t the issue. 
I started with a stock blank that has interesting lines and some checking issues, nothing serious for this caliber but there will be some things that need addressed.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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