Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) whitney original rolling block (Read 2681 times)
critter68
Senior Forum Member
ASSRA Board Member
****
Offline



Posts: 293
Location: Wisconsin
Joined: May 31st, 2018
whitney original rolling block
Feb 3rd, 2023 at 6:10pm
Print Post  
Frank de Haas refers to it as the m/72 in his book on single actions.  Lots of great info.  My problem is I can not get the action reassembled for the life of me.  I need an order of reassembly.  I have the breech block assembly, hammer assembly, and the trigger assembly out.  All springs are where they started. It is different than a remington rb that much I have learned.  Can anyone help?

Mike
  

ASSRA LIFE#294
NRA LIFE #194353342
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 18211
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: whitney original rolling block
Reply #1 - Feb 4th, 2023 at 11:16am
Print Post  
Is this the Whitney based on the Remington, or the Whitney-Laidley that can be loaded with the hammer at half cock?
It's usually simpler to assemble all the parts into the lower tang, and put the breech block, extractor, and hammer, into the receiver before assembling the lower tang to the receiver. A mainspring compression tool will make it all got together easier, and then release the spring once the screws are in.
« Last Edit: Feb 4th, 2023 at 11:23am by marlinguy »  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
critter68
Senior Forum Member
ASSRA Board Member
****
Offline



Posts: 293
Location: Wisconsin
Joined: May 31st, 2018
Re: whitney original rolling block
Reply #2 - Feb 4th, 2023 at 2:10pm
Print Post  
I got it finally. It is the Whitney-Laidley.  I was treating it like a rem rb but it is not.  You need to remove the trigger assembly/trigger guard and then it becomes kind of a 3 hand job as you fight the mainspring/cam spring to get the rear trigger guard screw in.  I found my problem too which is why I disassembled....broken latch and lucky I found one at Dixie Gun Works.  always an opportunity to learn something with an old gun.  Thanks for the reply.

mike
  

ASSRA LIFE#294
NRA LIFE #194353342
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 18211
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: whitney original rolling block
Reply #3 - Feb 4th, 2023 at 3:40pm
Print Post  
critter68 wrote on Feb 4th, 2023 at 2:10pm:
I got it finally. It is the Whitney-Laidley.  I was treating it like a rem rb but it is not.  You need to remove the trigger assembly/trigger guard and then it becomes kind of a 3 hand job as you fight the mainspring/cam spring to get the rear trigger guard screw in.  I found my problem too which is why I disassembled....broken latch and lucky I found one at Dixie Gun Works.  always an opportunity to learn something with an old gun.  Thanks for the reply.

mike


Whitney Rolling Blocks are pretty nice guns, but the Whitney-Laidley are a step above, and really a much nicer action than the Remingtons or the common Whitney 72. 
I have a Whitney-Laidley in .45-70 that I really like.
I have a small C clamp I use to compress the mainsprings so it makes assembly a lot easier.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzendave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Retired Ex-Shooter

Posts: 4253
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Joined: Jan 28th, 2005
Re: whitney original rolling block
Reply #4 - Feb 4th, 2023 at 4:37pm
Print Post  
Yup I had the same problem the first time I reassembled the Whitney Laidley Model 1 Rolling Block. 
I found I had to compress the main spring to reassemble.
Wood has been refinished on the one in the pictures for owner who refused to leave it original.
More parts and better quality machining than the Remington which was cheaper to produce and took over the market.
These rifles were designed to compete with Remington's  No. 1 rolling block rifles and are fairly rare. 
Manufactured in 1871-1881. 
Standard markings, blade front sight, notch and folding ladder rear sight, "45-" on top at the breech, "70" ahead of the forearm, and matching serial numbers on the barrel, forearm, and lower tang.
Whitney acquired manufacturing rights for this model from inventors T. Laidley and C.A. Emery, who had received the patent in 1866. 
Whitney immediately started modifying the action to become competitive with Remington Rolling Block. 
Approximately 50,000 manufactured totally between 1871 and 1881. 
There are a number of variations of this model.
In 1865, Rider improved the split breech design to create the rolling-block action which was named the "Remington System" which was cheaper to produce.
« Last Edit: Feb 4th, 2023 at 5:18pm by Schuetzendave »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 18211
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: whitney original rolling block
Reply #5 - Feb 10th, 2023 at 10:52pm
Print Post  
I took my Whitney-Laidley apart today so I could refresh my memory, and after compressing the spring and reassembling it, it locked up solid! So compressing the "springs" (there are two) isn't good.
After 5 attempts, and 5 failures, each time locking the action up in one way or the other, I dug out my copy of DeHaas' Single Shot Rifles and Actions. I immediately saw the two springs, mainspring, and cam spring, that stack on the lower tang need to be situated separately against the hammer and cam. The cam spring is forked and rides either side of the hammer.
So I assembled the whole action with out the two springs installed, and then with breech block and hammer both forward, I laid the two springs in position, and then started the spring retainer screw in separately. Then once it was screwed in I made sure the mainspring was perfectly centered on the hammer, and tightened the screw with pliers on the screw head. Can't get to the slot with a screwdriver.
It works perfect doing it this way, but all previous ways failed for me.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
jfeldman
ASSRA Board Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1125
Location: Imperial Beach, Ca
Joined: Nov 5th, 2005
Re: whitney original rolling block
Reply #6 - Feb 10th, 2023 at 11:29pm
Print Post  
Maybe this?

Regards,
Joe
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
critter68
Senior Forum Member
ASSRA Board Member
****
Offline



Posts: 293
Location: Wisconsin
Joined: May 31st, 2018
Re: whitney original rolling block
Reply #7 - Feb 11th, 2023 at 7:45am
Print Post  
Joe that is a handy little screwdriver.  Vall has been a huge help with this but I am still not out of the woods.  I can get it reassembled easily with his method, definately the way to do it and the previous plier marks on the mainspring screw confirm this, but it is locked up when i get it together.  I reassemble without the new replacement latch and the action all functions but there is slop when I drop the hammer, hence the latch serves a purpose of course.  The latch spring is original and kinked badly.  ordered a new spring with the latch but it is not even close to the same spring.  to the hardware store I go and may need to file a little on the replacement latch copying the original broken latch.  It just amazes me how tightly locked up the action is with the new latch in and I still wonder about the orientation of the block, cam, hammer, latch when I am assembling.
mike
  

ASSRA LIFE#294
NRA LIFE #194353342
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
critter68
Senior Forum Member
ASSRA Board Member
****
Offline



Posts: 293
Location: Wisconsin
Joined: May 31st, 2018
Re: whitney original rolling block
Reply #8 - Feb 11th, 2023 at 10:34am
Print Post  
Latest update is good news.  I painstakingly straightened the spring and was very pleased with the results.  Then I copied the new extractor with the old with a file and bingo at last when I assembled according to Vall's method I had full function and the hammer fell as it should.  I think with the latch out the hammer was falling but not at the correct notch in the hammer because now the trigger pulls as a trigger should.  thanks to all
mike
  

ASSRA LIFE#294
NRA LIFE #194353342
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 18211
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: whitney original rolling block
Reply #9 - Feb 11th, 2023 at 11:23am
Print Post  
That's a great little offset screwdriver Joe, and I guess I need to find one! I have a Chapman set with changeable tips, but not enough room to use it in many places. Does yours allow tips to be removed so it can become even more compact?

Mike, glad you got it finally! Way to stick with it, and get it going again!
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kensmachine
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 574
Joined: Nov 21st, 2012
Re: whitney original rolling block
Reply #10 - Feb 11th, 2023 at 11:42am
Print Post  
If I have one I will bring it to OAC ken
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
jfeldman
ASSRA Board Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1125
Location: Imperial Beach, Ca
Joined: Nov 5th, 2005
Re: whitney original rolling block
Reply #11 - Feb 11th, 2023 at 4:07pm
Print Post  
Vall it's a one piece affair.  Guess a person could grind off one side for a dedicated offset.

Joe
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 18211
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: whitney original rolling block
Reply #12 - Feb 11th, 2023 at 5:05pm
Print Post  
jfeldman wrote on Feb 11th, 2023 at 4:07pm:
Vall it's a one piece affair.  Guess a person could grind off one side for a dedicated offset.

Joe


How thick is it from screwdriver tip to tip Joe? Maybe it's OK as-is if it's short enough. I have a couple of those racheting handles like Lyman uses for their lubrisizers, and might consider just cutting the length down on bits for magnetic tip screwdrivers. Then I could use those rachet handles and a short tip for tight areas.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
jfeldman
ASSRA Board Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1125
Location: Imperial Beach, Ca
Joined: Nov 5th, 2005
Re: whitney original rolling block
Reply #13 - Feb 11th, 2023 at 9:36pm
Print Post  
Your idea of cutting down the bit might work better Vall.  From tip to tip, it's right at 1 inch.

Regards,
Joe
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MrTipUp
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Quality is to a product
what character is to
a man

Posts: 1406
Location: Indiana
Joined: Feb 19th, 2020
Re: whitney original rolling block
Reply #14 - Feb 11th, 2023 at 10:40pm
Print Post  
The 1/4" ratchet wrench with some of the newer Lyman Lubrisizers is the Chapman wrench.  I also use a 50+-year-old Chapman set.  I can usually make do in a small space by cutting off the top of the bit.  If needed, a new full-size bit can be ordered from Chapman for usually around $1 and quite often for free.  Chapman is an excellent company for standing behind their products.

Bill Lawrence
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint