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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) about the 25 hornet (Read 3285 times)
bullshop
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about the 25 hornet
Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:19am
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Soon I may take possession of a rifle built on a Hoch action and chambered for the 25 hornet.   I would like to hear from anyone that has experience with the cartridge.
  
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rgchristensen
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Re: about the 25 hornet
Reply #1 - Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:32am
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I have been playing with a 25 RF, which is near the same thing.   It is a serious shooter with 75 gr lead bullets and a near case-full of AA9, slower than the shotgun-powders one would think that would work best.  It has shot 1.5" group at 200 yd.   It makes me think of taking up squirrel hunting again.   There was a photo of a substantially-identical Stevens 44 1/2 on the cover of the Journal ~20 years ago -- a rifle that had been the favorite squirrel rifle of Gary Cooper

CHRIS
  
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bullshop
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Re: about the 25 hornet
Reply #2 - Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:57am
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That is very interesting, thank you.
  
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Cbashooter
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Re: about the 25 hornet
Reply #3 - Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:04pm
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rgchristensen wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:32am:
I have been playing with a 25 RF, which is near the same thing.   It is a serious shooter with 75 gr lead bullets and a near case-full of AA9, slower than the shotgun-powders one would think that would work best.  It has shot 1.5" group at 200 yd.   It makes me think of taking up squirrel hunting again.   There was a photo of a substantially-identical Stevens 44 1/2 on the cover of the Journal ~20 years ago -- a rifle that had been the favorite squirrel rifle of Gary Cooper

CHRIS

I have a Stevens 47 on a 44 that was 25RF I had redone to 25-20 single shot. Are you converting hornet cases in a original Stevens?. So far mine is not shooting nearly as well as yours but it sure has been fun. Is yours an original barrel.
  
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rgchristensen
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Re: about the 25 hornet
Reply #4 - Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:31pm
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I kinda lucked out.   My 44 1/2 is a CF action that someone screwed a hefty Stevens 25RF barrel onto.  Only needed a proper extractor and was ready to go.   The cases are made of PPU Hornet brass.  Turn the webs, swage down the bodies, trim, then turn the necks to desired thickness. This leaves an inside shoulder to seat the bullets against, making them easy to load.

It had a nice, zig-zag pattern of scope-mount holes down the top of the barrel and action.  Filled those and mounted an old 4x small-game scope on it.  From the first time out, it gave the impression that it would seldom miss a nickel at 50 yd.  It is a full-size rifle, and a real dandy!

Started with 3-4 gr of Blue Dot, but on recommendation of LEE GIBBS, went to heavier charges of AA9, which shot even better.   I see no use of trying to get higher velocities than about 1400 fps, which is great for plinking, squirrels, or even some target competition.  I have almost the same rifle in 25SS, but have come to prefer the 25 Hornet.

CHRIS
  
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bullshop
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Re: about the 25 hornet
Reply #5 - Jan 23rd, 2023 at 2:14pm
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Perhaps I am wrong but as I understood the 25 RF barrels had a groove diameter of .251" same as the 25 acp but the 25 CF barrels had a groove diameter of .257"/.258"
  
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Cbashooter
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Re: about the 25 hornet
Reply #6 - Jan 23rd, 2023 at 2:48pm
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bullshop wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 2:14pm:
Perhaps I am wrong but as I understood the 25 RF barrels had a groove diameter of .251" same as the 25 acp but the 25 CF barrels had a groove diameter of .257"/.258"



My particular barrel is over .256 by a touch. And I can't quite remember but I think  my twist is closer to 15.
  
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waterman
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Re: about the 25 hornet
Reply #7 - Jan 23rd, 2023 at 3:41pm
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bullshop wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 2:14pm:
Perhaps I am wrong but as I understood the 25 RF barrels had a groove diameter of .251" same as the 25 acp but the 25 CF barrels had a groove diameter of .257"/.258"


Correct, but I have one on a Stevens Model 47, 44 action, .251 groove diameter, 17" twist, and marked "25-20" in Stevens script and chambered for the 25-20 SS cartridge.  Quality Control was not their speciality.
  
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ndnchf
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Re: about the 25 hornet
Reply #8 - Jan 23rd, 2023 at 8:41pm
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I have two remington rolling blocks in .25 rimfire (.25 Stevens). They have .257" and .258" groove diameters.
  
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bullshop
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Re: about the 25 hornet
Reply #9 - Jan 23rd, 2023 at 10:40pm
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So if I buy a 25 RF for the purpose of converting to CF its just a stab in the dark on what the barrel dimensions will be?   Seems like a .251" groove would severely limit mold choices or a lot of bullet sizing would be required.
I did buy a model 44 Stevens in 32 RF to convert to 32 CF. Wiki says the groove diameter for the 32 RF was .316" so I was a little worried about molds. Turns out all my 32-20 molds shoot good in it sized to .313"  It is now a 32 S&W long and is a really fun gun to plink with.
  
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uscra112
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Re: about the 25 hornet
Reply #10 - Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:08pm
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I have something over half a dozen original .25 rimfires, starting with an 1892 sideplate Favorite and ending with a 1938 Model 83. NONE of them have .251 bores.  ALL of them slug between .256 and .258, (for the worn ones).   Principle stumbling block to centerfire conversion is that the rimfire barrels are 17 inch twist, limiting the bullet length.   65 grain and flat-nose 74 grain bullets work fine. 

An old Ideal handbook says Remington .25-10 barrels were 16 inch twist.
« Last Edit: Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:17pm by uscra112 »  

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bullshop
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Re: about the 25 hornet
Reply #11 - Jan 24th, 2023 at 11:29am
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17" is a pretty slow twist for 25 caliber.  I think the 25-20 wcf was a 14" and even that was limited to about 85gn bullets.
I bad a 25-20 wcf built on an 1898 Krag action with a 10" twist barrel and it shoots really well with  cast bullets of 117 - 120gn intended for the 25-35 wcf which originally had an 8" twist.
I got the Hoch 25 Hornet yesterday and just looking through the barrel I will guess somewhere around a 10" twist.  The mold is for a tapered spitzer that I will guess slightly over 100gn.  Hope to cast some today and find out for sure. The chamber appears tight and intended for breach seating with bullets from this mold. Yestereve I loaded one round of fixed ammo with a 65gn PB bullet sized to .259" and it will not fully chamber .  If this rifle is to shoot fixed ammo as it is the case necks will have to be turned or a bullet diameter less than .259" or a combination of both will be in order. I wont alter the chamber because then the breach seating system may be rendered useless for accuracy.  I am anxious to try it as intended.  My intention is to go with about a BHN-9 to 10 alloy since the velocity of the cartridge due to its slight case volume will be limited to traditional black powder velocity at about 1300 fps.  Let the chase begin!
  
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Smoke
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Re: about the 25 hornet
Reply #12 - Jan 24th, 2023 at 1:24pm
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Ah, wasn't this started for info on the .25 Hornet?

I was hoping that it might, eventually, get around to that.
  
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uscra112
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Re: about the 25 hornet
Reply #13 - Jan 24th, 2023 at 1:35pm
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bullshop wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 11:29am:
17" is a pretty slow twist for 25 caliber.  I think the 25-20 wcf was a 14" and even that was limited to about 85gn bullets.


Right on both counts.  The rimfire rifles were designed to work with the 65 grain bullet that the proprietary Stevens black powder cartridge used.  It was meant to be a small game cartridge, nothing more.   

I'm trying to finish a Favorite with a 14" twist liner in it, if my Arthuritis will ever let me.  Plan however is to stick to the 63 grain bullets you cast for me last fall, owing to the small case and limited strength of the Favorite action.
  

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ndnchf
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Re: about the 25 hornet
Reply #14 - Jan 24th, 2023 at 2:08pm
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FWIW, my .25 rimfire Remingtons are 1-16 twist. They shoot the 72gr Arsenal 257420 bullet just fine out to 50 yards (that's as far as I've tried).  They stabilize fine, delivering nice round holes.
  
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