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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Low wall out of square (Read 2724 times)
Grand slam
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Low wall out of square
Nov 18th, 2022 at 9:08am
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I’m barreling a Winder low wall and the action face is not perpendicular to the barrel threads by .006” . That’s measured .625” from the bbl center line. I can smoke in the bbl by filing and scraping the high spot until I get 100% contact on the face but if any of you fellows know an easy way to fixture it up for a lathe or mill I’m all ears.
Cheers Richard
  
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GT
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Re: Low wall out of square
Reply #1 - Nov 18th, 2022 at 11:45am
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Richard,
I've done a few of these problem childs...  and I've come up with this fixture to single point threads in castings and repair/chase existing problems.   
For as many miles of threads I cut in my day to day work, this isn't a real big thing.  I don't do this type of work for hire but here's a picture of one of the actions I salvaged, it was a LW that I welded up the several different areas and re-machined.  Probably should have just tossed it for the effort required.

Photo f3 is of a Farrow that had the threads tapped, they weren't square with the world.  It has a shank stuffed in it to get it close when I went to the lathe and I'd mapped it out so I had an idea how it needed to be dialed in to square things up with the breech block.  I chased the threads, truing them up to the face, even though they weren't a standard size, I made the barrel and fit it.  It turned out well, torqued up square and everything was fine.
   
If the threads in your action are sound, turn a plug that fits the threads to a snug/tight fit, leave several inches of shank (turned true at the same time as when you cut your threads) to dial your action in, make this simple fixture, Wink and dial to the shank.  From here you can take a light skin on the face of the action to put it square to the threads, easy peasy...

Maybe 5¢ worth of info?
Greg
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Low wall out of square
Reply #2 - Nov 18th, 2022 at 11:50am
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OR...
I'd consider scraping the face of the action...
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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gwahir
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Ve gets too soon olt und
too late shmart.

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Re: Low wall out of square
Reply #3 - Nov 18th, 2022 at 1:42pm
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Square with the breech block would also be a consideration.

I am greatly impressed with that fixture!
  
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wesg
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Re: Low wall out of square
Reply #4 - Nov 18th, 2022 at 3:25pm
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gwahir wrote on Nov 18th, 2022 at 1:42pm:
Square with the breech block would also be a consideration.


I'm of the opinion that's number one.

I had the same problem with a Ruger no3.





  
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kootne
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Re: Low wall out of square
Reply #5 - Nov 18th, 2022 at 7:17pm
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Charlie Dells book about schuetzen rifles has the easiest way I've seen to square reciever face and block to threads. 
A threaded bushing, theaded OD, theads nice snug fit to reciever.
ID bored true to threads for a pilot hole. 
2 laps, one for the BB, one for the face, piloting in the bushing.
Drive laps with a hand drill. 

Tomorrow, while my wife is watching the Cat-Griz game I will see if I can find one I made years ago and post a picture.
« Last Edit: Nov 18th, 2022 at 7:25pm by kootne »  

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Grand slam
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Re: Low wall out of square
Reply #6 - Nov 18th, 2022 at 7:56pm
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Hi Greg! That’s one hell of a fixture, that action isn’t going anywhere.
Gwahir, nice looking work.
Moot even, thanks, looking forward to seeing the photos.
I’m thinking of threading up a spud that fits tight Jin the action and turn it between centers.
Thanks Richard
  
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Grand slam
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Re: Low wall out of square
Reply #7 - Nov 18th, 2022 at 8:10pm
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Man that spell check could screw up a steel ball with a rubber hammer.
Kootne, I remembered I have Schwartz and Dell’s Schuetzen Rifle book and read the part you talked about. I don’t have any cast iron for a lap but do have some 1.5 OD brass rod that may make a descent lap, what do you think?
Thanks Richard
  
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n.r.davis
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Re: Low wall out of square
Reply #8 - Nov 19th, 2022 at 7:30am
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Quick and dirty idea open to input.  Impressed with the knowledge of you all.  Think a Tight Fitting Threaded Arbor with about 6" extra length.  A Metal Can big enough to contain the Action.  Arbor with Action held Vertical in Mill or Drill Press.  Lower assembly into Can and fill with Cerro Safe.  Might Need a Few Pounds 🤔.  Chuck Arbor and indicate in then take a Light Trueing Cut on O.D. of Can.  Reverse and Chuck Can Indicating it in.   Someone posted about working where they bought Cerro Safe by the Ton.  I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around that!   Time for More Coffee 😜.  David
  
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John Taylor
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Re: Low wall out of square
Reply #9 - Nov 19th, 2022 at 7:57am
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Brings back memories of 22 1886 Winchesters that were sent to my shop for re-barrel. The actor Brad Johnson thought himself a gunsmith and took about half the actions to a belt sander to grind the lip off for making the rifle takedown models. None of these were square to the threads when he was done. I screwed a barrel into the acton and dialed it in on the mill and faced the action. Luckily for me  the frame extensions were new and had never been fitted to an action so each one could be fitted to a trued up action. Some were done in 45-70 and some in 50-110. I never got to see the finished product but did hear a few stories from the stock maker that did the stocks for many of the rifles. Tom Selleck ended up with one of them.
If I were doing a low wall or high wall I would be using the mill. A more rigged setup could be made off the edge of the table.
  

John Taylor   Machinist/gunsmith
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Grand slam
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Re: Low wall out of square
Reply #10 - Nov 19th, 2022 at 9:00am
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Davis, that’s really not a bad idea. A guy could turn a spigot that jams tight in the threads and screw that into the action and the other end chucked into the R-8 collet and lower it into a container already clamped to the table then fill with cerrosafe.
John, thanks! I agree that would be a rigid setup.
Thanks again fellows for the ideas.
Cheers Richard
  
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n.r.davis
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Re: Low wall out of square
Reply #11 - Nov 19th, 2022 at 9:53am
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Now that I'm Cafinated one more "Think About It". With the Breach Block Wedged into position by the Stub Arbor then held in position by the Cerro Safe could one use a Boaring Bar to true up the Breach Block Face?  Come to think about it I have a Low Wall that needs work.  Winter Project 😲. David
  
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John Taylor
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Re: Low wall out of square
Reply #12 - Nov 19th, 2022 at 9:32pm
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I have trued up a few actions in the lathe with a shaft screwed through the action. Chuck the end ( turned down) that goes past the tang and the other end uses the center. A screw or bolt going crossways where the bolt fits to keep the shaft from turning in the action. This way the action can spin with the lathe. Turn down enough to clean up the threads on the front of the action and a small lathe bit can be used to clean up the front of the acton. Have used this idea on rolling blocks, Hepburns and a few others. The threaded portion of the shaft is in the middle.
  

John Taylor   Machinist/gunsmith
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Grand slam
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Re: Low wall out of square
Reply #13 - Nov 19th, 2022 at 10:54pm
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Made a threaded stub arbor and it worked fine. I only had to take of .007”
  
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John Taylor
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Re: Low wall out of square
Reply #14 - Nov 20th, 2022 at 8:44am
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Grand slam wrote on Nov 19th, 2022 at 10:54pm:
Made a threaded stub arbor and it worked fine. I only had to take of .007”

That's the way to do it, good work.
  

John Taylor   Machinist/gunsmith
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