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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Read 38542 times)
bobw
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #210 - Apr 24th, 2023 at 12:20am
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Photo 1, Kind of an odd picture, but the collet slot we see is horizontal in the mill.  Notice the scribe mark is just past the slot.  If the slot is at 3 o'clock the scribe mark might be at 3:30-4:00.  Seem like the more you remove a screw and replace it, the slot will keep moving around, so by doing this, this way, I have a small amount I can still let it rotate and still be tight.

Photo 2, I use a rotary saw mounted in the spindle of my mill.  The blade is .025 thick and cuts the slot a bit wider than that. The slot and scribed mark can be seen here and the offset between the two.  The slot looks deep and it is, but the screw head is still long.

Photo 3, the screw is back in the plate.  Since these screws will all be taken down flush to the surface they need to be index correctly right from the start.  So, at this point they are slightly over tightened but will loosen up after a couple times in and out and end up about right for tension. 

Photo 4, the screw head is now filed down flush to the surface.  It will be polished when I do the full butt plate.

That is how I align screw slots, and it works....most of the time! Grin
Bob
  

Robert Warren
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bobw
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #211 - Apr 27th, 2023 at 7:58pm
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I have been procrastinating on making the lever pin since the lever was made, mostly because I am not sure what the stop will look like.  By stop I mean the spring loaded plunger that is part of the wood forearm.  The pin is actually retained by a slot in the frame and a flange on the pin, the plunger just stops the pin from rotating out of the locked position.  I machined the slot in the frame when the pin hole was originally drilled and reamed.   

So, here we go on the pin starting with photo 1.  This is showing offset turning of the pin.  The pin and flange can be seen and the flange is .040 thick.  The offset solid portion, in the chuck jaws, will become the lever.

Photo 2.  Here's the lever assembly after chopping it off the larger chunk of steel.

Photo 3.  And here the pin is in the frame.  Most of the flange needs to be removed before it will go fully not position.  The flange and frame slot can be seen here.  The frame slot onlyd goes a short distance into the frame.  The end of the slot stops the pin from rotating counter clockwise.

Photo 4. Here the lever is rough shaped and will be finished with files.  Once I got this rough shape I could mark where the flange needed to be removed for fitting to the frame.

Photo 5.  And here shows it actually fit...somewhat!
  

Robert Warren
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bobw
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #212 - Apr 27th, 2023 at 8:28pm
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Photo 1 shows the issue.  The forearm wood is interfering with the rotation of the pin, for removal.  So, what to do?  I wasn't crazy about cutting wood for clearance....so I decided from now on, in order to remove the pin, the forearm would need to be removed first.  That was one of the easiest issue to solved during this hole project! Grin

Photo 2 and 3 show the flange rotated in and out of the slot.

Photo 4,  I thinned the lever and then shaped it to....look like a lever.  Not real straight yet but this is just rough shaped anyway.  It is still rotated clockwise too far, this will be adjusted by removing the back portion of the flange, after the spring stop is installed in the forearm.

Now, I just need to figure out how the forearm stop works inside! Undecided
Bob
  

Robert Warren
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MrTipUp
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #213 - Apr 27th, 2023 at 10:29pm
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It's been many years since I played with a Sharps, but I'm pretty sure you didn't have to remove the forearm to remove the lever pin.  Plus having to do so would surely have annoyed any user bent on cleaning the action considerably. Last, a photo of the original percussion model locking pin is available at (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links); just search for "1859/1863 Sharps hinge pin".

Bill Lawrence

« Last Edit: Apr 27th, 2023 at 10:43pm by MrTipUp »  
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bobw
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #214 - Apr 27th, 2023 at 10:55pm
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Well Bill, now ya made this complicated again!  Cry

I came to this conclusion just before coming in for the day and obviously didn’t think this decision through very well!  Why have a plunger if you’re taking the forearm off anyway.   
Guess I’ve been working on this gun to long. Cheesy

The original gun did not have an extractor.  Since this one does, there is a projection on the bottom of the lever that activates the extractor.  I decided to cover this projection with the forearm wood, and modified the projection to allow it.  Because of this the forearm wood hangs down slightly more than the original, and is more squared up against the frame, in-order to contain the extractor lug.  This is the reason for the interference in rotating the lever.

Back to the drawing board tomorrow. Part of the fun in building a gun that never was!
Bob
  

Robert Warren
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bobw
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #215 - May 2nd, 2023 at 7:05pm
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A follow up on the wood interfering with the pin removal.  

This picture is the forearm portion relief cut out, which is required because I wanted to cover the extractor projection on the lever.  Red arrow is what I'm referring to and that the wood is really thin because of this.

I ended up somewhat reshaping the wood and then making a small relief in the side of the forearm for the pin to clear, unless you look for it it won't be seen.
Bob
« Last Edit: May 2nd, 2023 at 8:03pm by bobw »  

Robert Warren
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bobw
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #216 - May 2nd, 2023 at 7:19pm
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The last several days I have been reshaping the lever and hammer, polishing metal and sanding wood.   

The first picture is where it started.   

Next the lever and hammer are rough shaped.   

In the final three, the wood is ready for finish, but the steel at this point  is only polished to 150.

The trigger and lever pin still need some work.
Bob
  

Robert Warren
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #217 - May 2nd, 2023 at 9:00pm
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WOW, takes ones breath away, and especially thanks for the time to record it all for us mortals.  Krag
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #218 - May 2nd, 2023 at 10:16pm
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Gosh and I just want to be able to put a stock on my old Lefever double barrel...
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #219 - May 3rd, 2023 at 10:11am
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You have amazing craftsmanship abilities Bobw! Such a pleasure to watch the progression.
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #220 - May 3rd, 2023 at 11:13am
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That's sexy as heck Bob!
  

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bobw
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #221 - May 3rd, 2023 at 11:30am
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Thanks guys!
jhm,  just find a chunk of walnut and start picking away at it.  That’s what I do, and eventually something that works shows up! Cheesy

Some ramblings about what I don’t like.
One thing on this gun that has and still does bug me, is the hammer.  On the original gun the hammer face strikes a percussion nipple and set at less of an angle from horizontal than my gun.  The hammer face on this gun is at a much steeper angle in order to hit the transfer bar for the firing pin.  This angle, combined with the round breech block and the rectangular frame in this area, makes for a fairly tight area for the hammer to get to the transfer bar.  So, I made this hammer taller with a longer nose thinking this was the way to accomplish this.   

Also on the original, the hammer body, below the head, seems to me, too large compared to the frame size.  So, I have tried to streamline this area somewhat.  I think I went to far and made it almost spindly looking.

So, I have been having a really good conversation privately with another member about this hammer.  While the hammer is quite usable as it is, I think I’m going to make a different hammer, trying to incorporating changes to the features that I don’t really care for.   

These being, a change to the body, below the hammer head, making it appear more robust but still not overwhelming the frame.  Then, shortening the hammer nose and lowering the head so that is sits down tighter to the frame.   

I want the hammer to strike the transfer bar at the bottom on first contact rolling up to full contact by the time the bar is stopped by the breech block.  I wanted, and have, this because the heaviest structure of the transfer bar is at the bottom, I don’t know at this point if these last changes can be accomplished because of this.  We will see how or if these changes work out.
Bob
  

Robert Warren
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MrTipUp
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #222 - May 3rd, 2023 at 11:40am
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Your explanations and procedure demonstrations are always so clear and the learning potential so high.  Many of us can't get enough!

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #223 - May 7th, 2023 at 8:57pm
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Thanks Bill.

Since this gun will need sights, I decided to go with something that looks like the original.  There are at least a couple versions of original rear sights on these guns.  One has a tube or hood and the other an unusual adjustable style.  This later style I did find as used, but unfortunately someone had cut the ears down so the sighting notch was really low.  This first photo show an original of the adjustable style that I decided to try making.  I will probably drill the barrel for scope bases even thought it will have sights, it's easier for me to shoot them with a scope.

In this second photo I'm machining both main parts of the sight at the same time.  Since they are the same width I cut them from the same chunk of steel.  The part being machined is the base that will get the radius and adjusting notches in its back surface, it also will have the dovetail used to mount the sight.  On the right is the adjustable part of the sight.

The third photo shows machining the angled sighting portion of the sight.

And in the fourth I'm finishing up the angle and thinning the area in front of the notch.
Bob


  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #224 - May 7th, 2023 at 9:36pm
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I started with the work on the base, but did not get early pictures while machining the rear radius.  I drilled a hole for the pivot, then mounted the base on the rotary table, after getting it setup I cut the back edge to the radius I was looking for.  Which is .587 for those that might be interested.

So then I need to cut all the notches for the sight elevation adjustments.  Since they are cut into the rear radius, and in alignment with the pivot point, I needed a way to hold and make adjustments while cutting each notch.  This first picture shows the jig for holding and clamping the base. It also allowed for adjustments.

Photo 2, since the bottom of the pivot slot, in the base, is machined, I used an indicator and got the base aligned with the milling head and saw, is other words...dead level.  Once that was set, I adjusted the saw blade to the center line of the pivot pin.  At this point the saw was never moved vertically again.  Every notch was cut in alignment with the pivot pin.  These adjustments got me to what I considered the zero position on the base.

Photo 3, I then could cut the first notch.  This first notch was actually cut lower by .015 from the center line, so the base needed to be moved up from the zero position.

Photo 4, so in order to rotate the base for each notch, I need a way to measure each movement.  I simple put a dial indicator on the edge of the base, loosen the vice and rotated the base down to the new position from the previously cut notch.  Shown here the dial is at zero.   

And the next photo #5 shows the movement.  I actually did not use the .035 shown here I went to .045 because .035 put the notches much closer together that what I was comfortable with.
Bob

  

Robert Warren
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