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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Read 38437 times)
ssrifles
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #105 - Jan 20th, 2023 at 1:20pm
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bob,  greg has "affected" a lot of people in different ways,  he has so many rabbit holes he's going down  he's got to inspire  someone somehow.   thanks greg   tony<><
  
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bobw
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #106 - Jan 26th, 2023 at 5:47pm
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Spring number four is installed and so far holding.  It's made it through several cycles of the hammer and while a little stiff, is working well.  My new method of tempering springs will now be using lead.  I held the lead temp at just around 630 and soaked the spring for 20 minutes.  Once I know for sure it will be okay in a few days, I will thin it so the hammer is a little easier to work.
Bob
  

Robert Warren
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #107 - Jan 27th, 2023 at 3:22pm
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Always remember with heat treating that time is your friend.

If you can hold that lead bath constant for a longer period, draw the temper for 2 hours. Remove the spring, and let it cool to room temperature, then repeat the draw cycle. This is your ductility draw.

I have done this procedure for a long time - I have too much time in a lot of springs to have breakages.
  
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bobw
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #108 - Jan 28th, 2023 at 12:10pm
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Thanks cudog.  It was tough enough holding that temp a few minutes.  I’ve always had good luck with springs until this one.  I’m thinking by the end of the year I will have a small heat treat oven.  I have other uses for it anyway so it would be nice to have.
Bob
  

Robert Warren
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #109 - Jan 29th, 2023 at 8:55am
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The furnace I use is a small Evenheat model I bought from one of the knife making supply houses. It can be programmed to do five different cycles, so I have tool steel, springs, anneal all ready to go.

The only regret about getting one is why you didn't do it sooner!

Also, get some proper quench oil - engine oil, or any other witchcraft mix is not good enough. I keep mine in a large crockpot so it can be warmed to the correct temperature before quenching the steel.

Heat treatment is a known and proven process, as long as you know what steel you are using, is is very predictable if you follow the correct procedure.

Everything else is witchcraft.
  
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bobw
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #110 - Jan 29th, 2023 at 6:55pm
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The last couple days I've been playing around with the lever and lever spring.  Of course I needed to design and make the spring.  In the picture the spring is not attached to the barrel but the false barrel stub instead.  I needed to now exactly where the spring was to be positioned and this gave me a good test without messing up the barrel.  Now that I know where the screw goes it an easy transition to the barrel.  Parts are just rough finished but the lever is closing and holding closed.  When closing it snaps shut with a nice firm snap. The lever profile is also starting to take shape now, although I think it looks a bit heavy, so when I start really fine tuning the function and look of the different parts, I will correct this.  Next it will get chambered and test fired.
The only major thing left, after that, is the lever pin, the sharps style with the lever attached on the right side that rotate to remove the pin.  Not sure how I'm going to make that yet.
Bob
  

Robert Warren
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #111 - Jan 30th, 2023 at 9:23pm
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Here is a picture of an original rifle showing the lever pin setup.  The spring loaded button is pushed in, to allow the lever to rotate, releasing the pin so that it can be removed from the frame and lever.. 
So today I worked out how deep the counterbore for the pin needed to be and how the pin was to be retained in the frame.  Not knowing how the original was setup, these last two pictures show what I came up with.  The depth of the counter bore is obvious but you can also see the under cut that will retain the pin.   This under cut will also stop the pin from rotating counter clockwise, clockwise rotation is stopped by the spring loaded button.   The lever will have the tab machine in it to fit undercut slot.  Once the lever is rotated clockwise far enough, the pin will be released from the undercut and can be removed.
Bob
  

Robert Warren
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(It seems I actually winning!)
Reply #112 - Feb 1st, 2023 at 6:41pm
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I finally got to a point I felt comfortable cutting away the excess metal on the tangs.  In the first picture I have it mounted on the rotary table which just help me line up the angle of the top tang.  Using an end mill, I just cut the tang loose on the line I was wanting.

In the second photo the excess is gone.   
The frame, the way it sits here with no parts installed, weighs 13.2 ounces.

The last photo shows a comparison between the Sharps Pistol Rifle action and a Stevens 44 action.
Bob
  

Robert Warren
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #113 - Feb 1st, 2023 at 7:07pm
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Here are a couple photo of the assembled action with the barrel installed, left and right sides.  It is fully functional and will be chambered this weekend and test fired.   

There is still lots of work to do though! Wink

At this point, with the barrel 2 1/2 inches longer than it will end up, the assembled action and barrel weigh in at 4 pounds 12 ounces.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #114 - Feb 5th, 2023 at 12:47pm
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The gun is now chambered and the extractor fitted.  It was a bit tight around the chamber for loading an actual shell.  I had to remove some metal from the front of the breech block and the front of the loading trough.  This didn't really surprise me because I wasn't sure where things would end up after the chambering and I had already planned on lowering the breech block anyway.  I chambered it in 25-20ss and I think this is the largest shell rim I would try to fit to this frame.  A 22 long rifle would have been a smarter choice but I already have several guns already in 22 lr and wanted something different. 

I fired 12 primed shells while it was still in the lathe for chambering and am pleased with the primer strike, especially since the firing pin angle is setting at 24 degrees, and it fired everyone on the first strike.  The transfer bar is also working very nicely so far.

I did a live fire at the range yesterday, 10 rounds and no problems, except extraction was a bit cumbersome, but when I get the breech block and loading trough opened up I believe it will be much easier.

Photo of the firing pin strike on the primers.
Bob
  

Robert Warren
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #115 - Feb 5th, 2023 at 1:57pm
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Nice bull's-eye, congrats! You never fail to amaze.
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #116 - Feb 11th, 2023 at 7:16pm
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I now have the frame opened up a little more in the cartridge trough area.  I deepened it at the front .050 to 0 at the rear and widened it .045. It's much easier to get the shell in and extraction works much better.  Put ten more rounds through it and everything worked good.

Functionally the action is working, although it still needs quite bit of refinement.   

But, I decided to start contouring the frame anyway, getting it to the rough final shape.  I started on top, at the front, shaping the transition between the barrel and back into the frame.  Here are four pictures as it progressed on the right side.  Sorry about the white fuzzy stuff, it's the chalk that I use on my files!  Next I'll move to the other side and get it the same shape as this side, then refine both later in the final shaping.  But, this is really close to being the finished shape.  Although, now that I look closer at the pictures, I do see some work that needs done around the top edge.   
I take these pictures and it's surprising how ofter I see things I need to do different or change when looking at them.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #117 - Feb 11th, 2023 at 9:27pm
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Wow. That sure has come a long way since the hunk of plastic was being used to conjure the right direction to go. Greg and you always manage to humble most of us with the superb creations that come from your shops. Nice to see this one on a cool winter night.   Smiley
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #118 - Feb 11th, 2023 at 11:32pm
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Bob,
That is really coming along!   

I took a break from a damaged high wall I've been trying to revive and dove down a deep crevasse - and I'm still falling.  I'm doing an action with English origins, a Webley with a round block, it's the second one of these round block actions I've tackled.  Not going to admit that is a favorite nor one I despise - the jury is still out.  I am real happy you kept pushing on this.  Thanks for sharing.
Greg
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #119 - Feb 13th, 2023 at 10:39am
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Thanks guys.

Greg, what model Webley is that?  Tried a search but didn't find any thing. I assume it's got a centered hammer rather than a side like this Sharps.  A central hammer would change some of the difficulty in a build to other areas, but sure would make the breech block easier to deal with.

This is just an update with photos of the rough shaped front done.  This is just a file finish at this point, I will refine the shape slightly with stones and paper later.

Started looking at the shaping to the rear of the frame, where it hooks up to the wood, and having some questions that are proving a little difficult to solve.  All the pictures I had appear to show a short flat area on the side of the frame, not a fully rounded frame, and I question this is true.  Pictures can be deceiving.  I have a feeler out to an owner of an original and waiting for an answer, hoping he can clear it up.  But, last night while digging around on the net I found a picture that appears that it is round, at least on that gun.  So today I will start playing with this and see what happens!
Bob
  

Robert Warren
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