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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting (Read 10078 times)
ssdave
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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #30 - Jan 11th, 2023 at 1:34am
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The fitting to the buttplate and smoothing the back half of the stock was a solid 1 3/4 hours of work.  This isn't fast work, it's cut a bit, check, get it right.  You're doing the final shaping of the stock and it needs right, without angle changes, humps, or flat spots.  I'll have about the same amount of time shaping the front to meet the receiver wrist, and then an hour or so cutting the shadow line and shaping the cheekpiece.  Then it'll be ready to start the sanding.
  
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bobw
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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #31 - Jan 11th, 2023 at 2:03pm
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Dave, you are spot on about the wood being straight without the hump.  I do get there a little differently than you though.  I don’t work the whole stock.  I flatten the high/widest point on the stock side first, all the way to the wrist area.  Then shape facets from there down and up to the heel and comb, keeping those all straight also.  Then it’s just a matter of connecting and smoothing between the facets.  I also keep a center pencil line that I work into on the sides, toe and heel lines.  This helps keep the highlights straight.  A cheek piece creates some issues so I use a straight edge, made from wood, with the center cut out to get over the cheek area in order to keep that line looking correct.
Nice work.
Bob
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #32 - Jan 11th, 2023 at 7:08pm
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I'm in the process of building a "conversion stock" to change my Ballard #4 from straight grip to pistol grip. I'm using a takeoff pistol grip stock and reshaping the grip area to fit the straight grip action.
The inletting didn't fit my receiver tang for some reason, so I had to use my wood chisels to open it up some, and then a large rat tail file to open up the tapered tang so it would slide on.
My original straight grip stock is an early Brown Mfg. leftover this first year Ballard was fitted with at Marlin. The stock has very long points and a deep curve, and hurts like heck shooting .45-70 in it with this plate. The new stock has a larger Niedner buttplate and should make it a joy to shoot. This early Ballard has the Brown open ring lever, with the pin and hole system used on very early guns. So have to remove some extra wood to allow the lever to fully close and fit over the pin.

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ssdave
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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #33 - Jan 11th, 2023 at 8:01pm
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Interesting adaptation, Vall.

A pistol grip on a ballard always seems out of place to me, more of a design feature without purpose, because the trigger is so far forward on the receiver that you hand sits several inches forward of a wood pistol grip.
  
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ssdave
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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #34 - Jan 12th, 2023 at 1:58am
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Made decent progress with about 2 hours tonight.  Rasped off the remainder of the stock to shape, and sanded all except the cheekpiece shadowline/edge with first grit of sandpaper.  Except the last 1/4" to the receiver, will take stock off the metal and do that so I don't scratch the metal.  Nothing really to show, just cut a 2" or so block of wood, wrapped a piece of sandpaper around it, and rubbed it in the direction of the grain until all the rasp marks were gone and the surface was smooth and regular.  I can now start to see what the stock grain will look like.  I'll show how to detail sand the cheekpiece transition, shadow line, cupped edge and corners in my next post, after I do it.

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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #35 - Jan 12th, 2023 at 10:44am
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ssdave wrote on Jan 11th, 2023 at 8:01pm:
Interesting adaptation, Vall.

A pistol grip on a ballard always seems out of place to me, more of a design feature without purpose, because the trigger is so far forward on the receiver that you hand sits several inches forward of a wood pistol grip.


I don't find that myself Dave. I do agree that a pistol grip is half receiver, and half wood when I hold a Ballard to shoot as the levers overlap both wood and receiver 50-50 when holding them. But it definitely feels different holding a pistol grip stocked Ballard vs. a straight grip to my hands. But I have pretty long hands and fingers, so maybe that's just me?
The standard loop lever used on many Ballard models shows the 50-50 overlap of lever to action and stock.

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ssdave
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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #36 - Jan 15th, 2023 at 1:53pm
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I had an hour this morning to start working on the detail sanding.  The first thing that's important is to be able to see.  You can't work on something you can't see.  I wear an optivisor a lot, that lets me see detail, and see scratches and areas that need worked on and be able to tell when they're finished.  


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To work the cheekpiece edge, I use a door wedge.  The thin edge lets me work up to the shadowline, parallel with the grain, without rounding or gouging it.

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If you have problems with the sandpaper slipping, overlap one of the edges, wrap up to the top, and you can hold it against slipping.

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I use the tapered part of a pencil to wrap the sandpaper for the finest cupped edge of the cheekpiece, and then anything round the right diameter for the larger parts.  A dowel, or in my case, a handy punch handle.

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The detail work is what differentiates a good stock, get the small details right, and sanded without defect.  I still need to take the stock off the receiver and sand the stock end where they meet.

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There's a couple of small checks in the grain, I mix dyed acraglass and some sanding dust and fill them.  Now have to wait a day or two before I can resume sanding.

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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #37 - Jan 15th, 2023 at 2:21pm
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Long live the Opti-Visor!

Bill Lawrence
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #38 - Jan 15th, 2023 at 4:45pm
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A trick I often use to keep sandpaper from slipping on the backer block is using spray rubber cement on the block, then wrap the sandpaper around it. It's easy to peel off and replace, and I can usually replace the sandpaper a couple times before I spray some more rubber cement on to help it stick.
  

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ssdave
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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #39 - Jan 20th, 2023 at 2:18am
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Since I had filled the checks and waiting on acraglas to cure, I went ahead and finished inletting the buttplate to fit; just spotted it in with inletting black and chiseled the high spots off till it had even contact throughout.

I removed the stock from the action, and sanded the front couple inches of the stock smooth, checking it against the action to sand to just slightly proud of the metal.

Then, bedded in the front of the stock and the tang, this helps a Ballard not split there.

I tried something a bit different since I had the dyed acraglass; I smeared the entire rough sanded stock with it, to fill the pores.  


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Waited 3 days for it to cure thoroughly, and then sanded the acraglass off with 220; also sanded to mate to the action, the 220 is about right to take the rust freckling and scratches off the receiver, I'll be finishing it next and having it case colored.

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The checks filled with acraglass pretty much disappeared.


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Here's the rough stock style, in original ballard configuration I started with, and the final sanded and fit product:


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« Last Edit: Jan 20th, 2023 at 11:27am by ssdave »  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #40 - Jan 20th, 2023 at 11:44am
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Beautiful work Dave! 
I also coat the inside of the tang area on new stocks I put on Ballard rifles to strengthen the area and avoid cracks. I mask off the tang, and then coat the tape and the back of the receiver with release agent, and seat the stock. I install the through bolt, but just lightly snug it down to let it cure.
The next day I pull it off, and remove the tape. It leaves a close fit at the receiver, but slight clearance for the rest of the tang. It strengthens this thin area on the stocks and avoids any possible future cracking. I do this inside original stocks also after repairing cracks to keep them strong, and avoid more cracking.
  

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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #41 - Jan 20th, 2023 at 12:24pm
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Very nice work.
When I built my 28-35 and around a FBW's Model J action. I add the ballard style tail onto the back of he action. This to eliminate any possible swiveling / flexing at the action. Of which can typically be detrimental to ultimate accuracy. Also bedded it and stock attached with the use of a through bolt. I have only done two ballard stock replacements for bench rest work and very similar to what is being shown minus the cheek piece. The only per-say challenging part was in not damaging the original finished actions. Both butt stocks were duplicated and from CPA and matching wood to existing forearms turned out to be very nice. 

A picture of my FBW's Model J 28-35 that now belongs to a friend and it is extremely competitive. Sold it when I switched over to my CPA 25-35 and also just as competitive. 

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« Last Edit: Jan 20th, 2023 at 12:36pm by JLouis »  

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ssdave
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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #42 - Jan 22nd, 2023 at 1:29am
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Had an hour this evening to work on the forend for the Ballard.  

Found a pretty close match to the buttstock.  Made a cut sheet showing dimensions to cut the blank, and to set up the router.  I use a 45 degree cutter to cut the side step and octagon side flats, and then move to a straight cutter to cut the bottom.  Two passes with each cutter, one on each side, and you have the barrel channel roughed out to within a few thousandths.  If I was using a mill, I'd calculate all the measurements from the centerline of the blank.  Using the router table, have to calculate all from the outside of the blank.

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I saw out the blank to overall size, and make sure I square the sides.  Then, set up the router with the 45 degree cutter, cut a scrap piece, adjust height and width, cut again, after third trial cut I'm right on, and mill the side bevels out.  

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After the sides are cut out, I put in a 1/4" flat slot cutter, adjust the side offset and depth, and make two cuts to cut the bottom of the octagon channel.  Try it on the barrel; it's close enough to sand and inlet from here.  Next step will be to chisel and sand the channel to fit the barrel exactlly, and then layout the forend shape, and cut the outside to form.

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« Last Edit: Jan 22nd, 2023 at 1:41am by ssdave »  
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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #43 - Jan 23rd, 2023 at 2:00am
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Started fitting and shaping the forend tonight.  Wrap sandpaper around the barrel, since they taper, up near the muzzle will work.  Sand and try until it fits.   

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I started to chisel out for the round "tulip" end of the barrel, and like we talked about earlier in the thread, the wild grain of this piece of wood chipped out.  I could have glued it back, but just shortened the forend by 1/8", and used a sanding drum to cut out the round area instead. 

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Marked the receiver line on the end of the wood, and laid out what I want the forend to look like.  Hogged some of the material off with the belt sander, and then squared it up again with a rasp and file.

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I then lay out the centerline of the forend, and the side edge line, and start rasping the contour in.  The penciled lines give me a visual to keep it all straight.  It is very important to have everything square and straight and flat when I start this step, it really helps keep nice straight, even lines on the forend.  I quit when I have it about 70% roughed in.  Out of time for tonight.  Took me about an hour and a half to get this far.

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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #44 - Jan 23rd, 2023 at 3:10pm
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While you are getting close to it, what is the screw size for a Ballard fore end?
  
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