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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting (Read 10079 times)
marlinguy
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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #15 - Aug 25th, 2022 at 10:40am
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Skalkaho wrote on Aug 25th, 2022 at 10:33am:
Good work Dave.I need to maybe use a chizel more...I seem to rasp and be on the safe side. A pic of my small boring lathe,Use deep bore bits,you need a guide to start the 1" bit then it goes straight


Same for me also. I've got some very nice wood chisels, but afraid to use them much as it scares me to think about getting a little too deep. So I also use wood rasps to do most stock shaping, as less chance of me getting too heavy handed.
  

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Green_Frog
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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #16 - Aug 25th, 2022 at 1:01pm
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Beautiful work.  As someone already suggested, there are those of us who can do this type of work, and others of us, perhaps the majority, who can only watch and admire.   Cool
Unfortunately, I seem to be deep in the latter category… I can turn fine wood (or metal) into scrap with amazing speed and regularity.   Sad
Makes me appreciate the former category all the more, though. Please keep posting pictures of your progress.  Smiley
Froggie
  
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ssdave
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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #17 - Aug 25th, 2022 at 4:42pm
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marlinguy wrote on Aug 25th, 2022 at 10:40am:
Skalkaho wrote on Aug 25th, 2022 at 10:33am:
Good work Dave.I need to maybe use a chizel more...I seem to rasp and be on the safe side. A pic of my small boring lathe,Use deep bore bits,you need a guide to start the 1" bit then it goes straight


Same for me also. I've got some very nice wood chisels, but afraid to use them much as it scares me to think about getting a little too deep. So I also use wood rasps to do most stock shaping, as less chance of me getting too heavy handed.


Now, that's funny.  I use chisels because it's too easy to take off too much and screw things up with a rasp, especially because the unintentional scratching of coarse teeth makes you have to overcut considerably during sanding to get below the roughness.  The chisels give much more precise control.  I use rasps to hog off material (like in the picture where I'm thinning the bulge behind the wrist) quickly, where control doesn't matter too much.  Rasps and then files also make it easier to establish a flat plane or surface, preparatory to sanding.

The key to chisels is learn to sharpen them.  So, it doesn't take a whole lot of force to get them to cut.  Too much force equals out of control, and then you can screw things up.  Very sharp, and small cuts at a time make for precise work, and relatively fast.  You have to have good chisels, not your Craftsman or Stanley carpenter chisels and certainly not your current China or India imports.  I use Dastra and antique English made ones myself, along with some Greenlee or I think Brookstone minii and palm chisels.   

I almost never use the scrapers others show; only on barrel channels and maybe some bolt action inletting.   
  
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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #18 - Aug 26th, 2022 at 6:43am
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Thanks for the interesting thread Dave. Great job of making it seem a little less daunting for those who aren't sure just how to go about it.
  
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ssdave
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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #19 - Aug 26th, 2022 at 1:46pm
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To those that are afraid of chisels gouging too deeply (legitimate concern, also that it splits a chunk out), notice in my pictures that as I cut away from the receiver to thin the stock to match, I do short cuts, and leave the curl in place.  I'm not a skilled fine woodworker, or a stock maker, I'm a hack.  I just lift a curl away from the receiver, and then do cross cuts to cut off those curls, so they don't split out a piece when I try to separate them.  You can see my cross cuts in the pictures, before I start to rasp behind them to remove bulk material.  If a person ever got really good with chisels, which I do see guys that are, you could make small, perfectly separated cuts, and not do this hack work.  I'm content to just coast on the same way, it gets the job done, just not elegantly.

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bobw
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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #20 - Aug 26th, 2022 at 7:21pm
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Dave, interesting use of chisels.  I think a lot of how we do things is how we learned and tend to stick with it.  I learned using rasps and have always used them up until the last couple guns, although I do, like you, use chisels around some features on a stock.  I’ve done very little with precarves and generally stock from blanks, but the last couple guns I’ve been using a draw knife, after bandsawing, to remove the bulk of the wood.  The draw knife I’m using, I’ve had for a long time, but have never used it because it is scary!  I wouldn’t be surprised if it isn’t over 100 years old, it’s large, with folding handles, and is extremely sharp and easy to keep that way.  Every time I use it I’m amazed at how much control I have.  Of course you still need to watch grain direction, but I can hog wood off or take just a very thin curl.  I also have a small 5-6 inch Pfeil draw knife which is also very sharp, but it’s been totally worthless compared to the old one, and I never use it.
Bob
  

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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #21 - Aug 27th, 2022 at 9:37am
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That is fantastic work! I'm more than a little envious. Good wood work certainly takes patience and the right tools. 
Looking forward to seeing the finished rifle.

John
« Last Edit: Sep 1st, 2022 at 11:26am by Timetripper »  
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ssdave
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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #22 - Dec 31st, 2022 at 11:22pm
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Wow.  Months with no progress.  Did a fit and inlet of a crescent, hollow back steel checkered plate for a rifle for my son a couple of nights ago, and took the Ballard out of the vise to do it.  So, tonight, thought I would pick it up and make some progress.  First thing, I am irritated by the vise every time I use it; the sliding rod handle hits the table.  So, modified it to a grip handle instead:

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I'm going to use a classic plastic buttplate; but the stock needs cut to the correct angle and fit to it.  I mark a rough pencil line, and the contact wheel on the belt grinder is the right tool:

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After it's roughed in, I pencil in a few more lines and use a rasp to get it closer to shape, and then a sharp file to smooth it.  15 minutes and it's within about .005" of perfect, I'll spot it in with inletting black and get it 100% contact after the stock is shaped to it.

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Last thing is drill holes and put the plate on with undersize screws for further work.
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« Last Edit: Dec 31st, 2022 at 11:44pm by ssdave »  
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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #23 - Jan 1st, 2023 at 8:31am
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Good job on the buttplate inletting, but what impresses me the most is the old hand drill. Haven’t seen one of those in a long time! Also the belt sander is impressive!
Going to be a neat old Ballard.
  

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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #24 - Jan 3rd, 2023 at 3:45pm
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Wow, Dave.  When I first started my Franken-Ballard project, that exact stock and the small loop, single trigger lever were part of my dream. My project, like the schemes  of mice and men has “gang oft a-gley”.  Undecided

I’m looking forward to seeing your project as it goes forward.  It looks like a winner!

Froggie
  
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AJ
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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #25 - Jan 3rd, 2023 at 8:38pm
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SSDave,

Getting off topic a bit, way back before the internet there was an article in a gunsmithing book that suggested that a semi-inletted stock blank for a Winchester Model 12 could be adopted to a Ballard action.  It is irrelevant to your thread, but I thought I would pass it along in case someone wanted to give it a try.

Back on topic, great work on stocking the Ballard.
  
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uscra112
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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #26 - Jan 4th, 2023 at 1:51am
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Like the way of drilling using the lathe.  I bored a Stevens stock once, from both ends and more or less free-hand.  It came out OK, but I reckon I've used up all my luck in that department.
  

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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #27 - Jan 4th, 2023 at 6:29pm
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You know, AJ, I was starting to think I'd lost my mind.  I was sure I'd read the same suggestion and I've looked and looked but have been unable to find it. 
  Any idea what book it may have been in?  Also thanks ssdave for the thread!

Regards,
Joe
AJ wrote on Jan 3rd, 2023 at 8:38pm:
SSDave,

Getting off topic a bit, way back before the internet there was an article in a gunsmithing book that suggested that a semi-inletted stock blank for a Winchester Model 12 could be adopted to a Ballard action.  It is irrelevant to your thread, but I thought I would pass it along in case someone wanted to give it a try.

Back on topic, great work on stocking the Ballard.

  
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AJ
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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #28 - Jan 4th, 2023 at 8:46pm
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Jfeldman,

I don’t remember the of the title of the book with the article on using a Model 12 stock for a Ballard, but I’m glad I’m not the only person who remembered it.  I may dig through my old books to see if I can find it, and I’ll post it if I do.
  
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ssdave
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Re: Ballard stock adaptation/inletting/fitting
Reply #29 - Jan 11th, 2023 at 1:29am
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I know this is pretty routine to most, but thought I would post some pictures and thoughts on rasping and smoothing the stock, and getting it to size at the buttplate.   

The buttplate is about 1/16" smaller than the stock, so wood needs removed to fit.  The important thing is to not round over the stock so it rolls off into the buttplate, goes up in the middle, and then rolls down toward the receiver.  That makes the stock look poorly done and amateurish.  Take long, smooth rasp strokes parallel to the stock.  As I work it, I notice that there's a seeming low spot just in front of the plate.  The temptation is to rasp at that area, until the edges are cut down and you're down to the low spot.  The correct answer is to thin the rest of the stock, in front of the low spot, because it's too high.  A straight edge to identify where the humps are so you can cut them off is helpful.  I tried to show the low spot, and how I work the rest down.   

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Once I get one side done, the cheekpiece side is next.  It's similarly too thick, I mark the high areas using the straightedge, and cut similarly.  I work right up to the cheekpiece edge.  Final is filed to just start cutting plate edge.
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