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Mick B
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Paper patching advice required
Feb 6th, 2022 at 6:35pm
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Just for something  to do I have been messing around with pp using bp only.
My first attempts have been with a BACO mould which casts a .392" bullet which when patched with BACO's 9 lb Onion Skin paper comes out at just on .399" and is a slip fit into the muzzle of my GM barrelled CPA 40-60. I have shot this both BS and fixed with little success.
I have another mould made by NEI which casts a nose pour bullet of .395" which when patched comes out about .401" or so and will not enter the muzzle at all.
I'm considering getting a sizing die to reduce the patched diameter as on some articles I have seen on You Tube show this being done.
Finally my question is what diameter should I size the bullet down to in order to use it in fixed ammunition ?.
Also the inside neck diameter of a fired case from my rifle is .408" so in order to have ammo that can be handled easily would it be best to use a taper crimp or go with full length neck sizing to suit the PP bullet.
Thanks   
Mike.
  
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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: Paper patching advice required
Reply #1 - Feb 7th, 2022 at 10:20am
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The paper patch experts hang out at the Shiloh Sharps and Historic Shooting sites. Some experts (and a few talented amateurs) also post on the Paper Patch forums on the Cast Boolits Site. Perusal of their back pages will save you time and powder getting set up.

The only .40 I have is a .40-3-1/4 SS, which has thus far resisted all efforts to get shooting well with paper patch.  (Embarrassingly, it shoots better with smokeless powder and grease grooves.) I have gotten good results with two Shiloh Sharps .45-70s and one in .44-77, and a rebored Highwall in.38-55.  For what it’s worth, here’s what I’ve found:

A little bit of windage between bullet and bore doesn’t seem to matter that much.  Bullets for the .45s from 0.441” to 0.443”, patched with tracing or vellum paper from 0.0013” to 0.0022” seem to work OK.  Measure thickness with a micrometer, turning the thimble down hard. Fatter bullets and thinner papers are better, probably, but one must use the mold diameters one gets.  I get better results with the thin paper, regardless.  I wrap bullets dry, with a clear spot at the bullet base; no tail or twist. Bullets of heavier weights (for the rifling twist) work better than lighter ones.  I don’t size after patching, but many do.  No patch treatment or grease cookie.

The bore must be absolutely clean and dry for each shot.  A good bore pig with a dry patch, or multiple wet-and-dry patches until only a light gray color shows on the last means that you are ready to shoot.

Bullet temper is important.  It has to be soft enough to upset into the grooves, but hard enough so the nose doesn’t slump to one side or the other while this happens.  Exotic nose shapes complicate this; best start with old styles.  16:1 is a good start; a hardness tester is better.  Between 8 and 12 BHN works best for me.  Softer gives a core group with flyers; too hard is all flyers.

When in doubt, add more powder.  My straight cases prefer Swiss, 1F or 1-1/2F; the .44 bottleneck likes OE 1F.  Best .45 loads are a case full of powder (~80gr); the .44 likes either 80 or 90gr.  Wads I use are 1/16” or 1/8” cork.  Compression to ~1/8” below the shell mouth, the bullet seated, and a homemade mouth reducer die to “squinch” the mouth just enough so the round can be handled. Avoid roll crimps. My Lyman neck size die is too big for patched bullets.

You may have a barrel that just doesn’t like paper patched.  Besides the .40, I also have a .45-100 that doesn’t, so far.  But I ain’t giving up!
  
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Ranch13
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Re: Paper patching advice required
Reply #2 - Feb 7th, 2022 at 8:50pm
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On that NEI bullet get ahold of some Seth Cole 55 w paper to patch it with.
  
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MikeT
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Re: Paper patching advice required
Reply #3 - Feb 8th, 2022 at 10:57pm
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Get I sizer die for your over bore size PP bullets.  In my 40 & 45's I like the patched bullet to be sized to bore diameter.
e.g. my 45-70 has a .450 bore diameter and I size my patched bullets to 0.4503.   
I wipe because I am a target shooter, so a snug fit in the barrel is not a problem to chamber the cartridge.

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT
  
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Grand slam
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Re: Paper patching advice required
Reply #4 - Feb 9th, 2022 at 7:31am
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Like MikeT I like a snug fit of the patched bullet to the bore for target shooting and I wipe between shots. You won’t be able to taper crimp. When you taper crimp both the case and bullet get reduced in diameter in the die when the round is removed from the die the case springs back some but the lead bullet does not so you have a loose bullet in the case also the bullet base is now further reduced in diameter. I use a slip fit of the bullet in the case for target shooting. Can’t recall the fellows name that makes very nice neck sizing dies with interchangeable inserts for sizing necks. He used to ah! Just remembered Meachum is the guy.
I just chamfer the ID of my neck instead of belling and also anneal every time after shooting.
Good luck.
Richard
  
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Ranch13
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Re: Paper patching advice required
Reply #5 - Feb 9th, 2022 at 8:03am
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I've never been completely satisfied with the 9 lb paper for consistent accuracy.
One thing when shooting patched to bore or just under the wad stack under the bullet becomes somewhat critical, the powder charge also needs to go up 2-4 grains over what you may of found good accuracy with shooting a greaser of the same weight.
Bullet patched to somewhere between bore and groove diameter usually but not always get by pretty good with the same powder charge as you used with a greaser.
You will seldom find consistent accuracy if the paper thickness is greater than the groove depth.
  
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Mick B
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Re: Paper patching advice required
Reply #6 - Feb 9th, 2022 at 6:25pm
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Thankyou all for the replies, I have decided to quit my experiments before I die of old age. I'm selling my two PP moulds to Anthony Griffiths in New Mexico so he can continue to dig into the rabbit hole I started. I wish him the best of luck .
Mike.
  
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