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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Tang sight plumb. (Read 7650 times)
JLouis
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #15 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 10:42am
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I don't know where you come up with the precision Benchrest setup that I am using. Below is mine and it is far from it actually being so.  
Please show me the 10 inch ring with all of the additional scoring rings with each being worth a point lost.. 
I believe the consistent requirements to remain extremely competitive are just not the same when shooting these sanctioned and timed events and also by their rules. 

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« Last Edit: Jan 7th, 2022 at 11:09am by JLouis »  

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Ranch13
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #16 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 11:22am
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Oldbee wrote on Jan 6th, 2022 at 6:44pm:
I am new to tang sights and I may be looking at this wrong but here goes!
I am putting a MVA tang sight on my Shiloh Sharps 1874.  I know some tang sights need to be shimmed from left or right to line them up with the front sight. 
After leveling the barrel do I need to shim the tang sight base to make the staff plumb / 90 degrees from the level barrel?  Other wise one would be looking through the aperture hole at an angle, thereby closing the hole some.  Am I being to critical?
Thanks
 
With the rifle secured on a rest the front sight reasonably centered on the barrel, and with the bubble in the front sight showing level. Then set the rear aperture so that it's at .25 or so on the staff, adjust if necessary the fore and aft on the rear sight so the front sight is in clear focus. Make sure the rear aperture is large enough to let plenty of light thru to your eye.
Now off to the range we go. From a good rest fire at a 100 yard target. With the rear sight set to zero windage, drift the front sight so that the poi is centered left or right.
Later on when you have a good load then you can begin the process of moving the front sight to account for spin drift at 800 yards, when you have sight setting on the rear sight. But that process will not require rear sight shimming.
 
  
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JLouis
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #17 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 11:57am
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If anyone happens to be in the area we have welcomed BP Shooters to come out and to shoot our monthly ASSRA matches. Actually had one gentleman who wanted to shoot off of cross sticks so we just moved his bench out the way. We also include Iron Sight matches and the targets are all ASSRA.
  

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Old-Win
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #18 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 12:22pm
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I've watched guys shoot groups at 1000 yds. they could cover with their hand. And doing it off just cross sticks, not a fancy adjustable rest on a bench.
[/quote

Wow, I'll bet that was something to see. Were they shooting smokeless loads like you do? BS
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #19 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 12:29pm
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Old-Win wrote on Jan 7th, 2022 at 12:22pm:


I've watched guys shoot groups at 1000 yds. they could cover with their hand. And doing it off just cross sticks, not a fancy adjustable rest on a bench.
[/quote

Wow, I'll bet that was something to see. Were they shooting smokeless loads like you do? Shocked


I shoot smokeless and BP both. Likewise for the guys I shoot with. And my friend who is one of the finest shooters I know shot mostly smokeless then, but has gone to almost exclusively BP to be able to shoot in matches that require BP. I've seen him do the same thing with both smokeless, and BP. 
Watching him shoot shot after shot at 1000 yd. and seeing the tiny groups he gets just makes me smile. I'm not nearly as good, but still enjoy trying to shoot small groups with the really good guys. His group was probably 5" and that was about 10 shots, not a 3 or 4 shot string.
  

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Ranch13
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #20 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 12:31pm
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marlinguy wrote on Jan 6th, 2022 at 11:36pm:
Shooting gongs is does not take less accuracy than shooting off a bench at 100 or 200yds. I'm getting a little tired of this constant comment every time the subject of accuracy comes up!
1 moa is 1" at 100 yds. So at 1000 yds., it's 10" and what happens to a bullet traveling through the atmosphere at 100 yds. or 200 yds. has far less effect on the bullet, than what happens to the same bullet traveling to a 10 moa target at 1000 yds. with the bullet exiting over the speed of sound, dropping back through it, and at an arc that's 60 ft. above the ground and all those wind flags people shooting 200 yds. use.
If some person with zero knowledge of shooting past 200 yds. from the bench thinks that hitting a target at 1000 yds. takes less accuracy or skill then they need to test themselves by trying it, and then tell everybody how easy it is, or how little sight adjustments mean at 1000 yds.
 
There are no scoring rings on a gong. A hit on a gong in a gong match counts the same whether it hits the edge by a half bullet or the center. Target matches don't work that way...
  
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Old-Win
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #21 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 12:39pm
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marlinguy wrote on Jan 7th, 2022 at 12:29pm:
Old-Win wrote on Jan 7th, 2022 at 12:22pm:


I've watched guys shoot groups at 1000 yds. they could cover with their hand. And doing it off just cross sticks, not a fancy adjustable rest on a bench.
[/quote

Wow, I'll bet that was something to see. Were they shooting smokeless loads like you do? Shocked


I shoot smokeless and BP both. Likewise for the guys I shoot with. And my friend who is one of the finest shooters I know shot mostly smokeless then, but has gone to almost exclusively BP to be able to shoot in matches that require BP. I've seen him do the same thing with both smokeless, and BP. 
Watching him shoot shot after shot at 1000 yd. and seeing the tiny groups he gets just makes me smile. I'm not nearly as good, but still enjoy trying to shoot small groups with the really good guys. His group was probably 5" and that was about 10 shots, not a 3 or 4 shot string.

That's total BS Vall and you know it, considering that the world record 1000 yd benchrest was just under 4" until a couple of years ago.
  
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #22 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 12:47pm
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Oldbee wrote on Jan 6th, 2022 at 8:59pm:
Thanks for all the good information.  This is going to be a learning cure for me.
One other question, how do you adjust the staff?  I can lean it forward or back.  It kind of snaps to the upright position in between.

Dependant of the sight the adjustment can be made by loosening the screw to the sight’s main spring located in the sight base and with a file elongate the hole to shift the sight. Some makes have an elongated hole and some don’t. Some versions are adjusted by filing the notch the main spring mates with making sure to file the one side of the notch in the direction you wish the sight to seat. Remember to go easy, a little goes a long ways. Good luck.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #23 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 12:48pm
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No it's not, and I've got a dozen guys who were all sitting there watching him shoot that group. And it's not at a BPCR match; just guys shooting together. I will see if I can find the video when one of the spotters tells him, "You've got a group there you could cover with your hand."
You guys are awfully quick to say something didn't happen simply because you weren't there to see it.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #24 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 12:52pm
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Ranch13 wrote on Jan 7th, 2022 at 12:31pm:
 
There are no scoring rings on a gong. A hit on a gong in a gong match counts the same whether it hits the edge by a half bullet or the center. Target matches don't work that way...


Of course there are no scoring rings at steel gongs. Doesn't mean that guys don't shoot small groups on a steel plate. You still try to aim small, and I see good shooters making small groups on steel. 
Take a look at Dave Gullo's videos where he's shooting long distance at the round plate inserted into the buffalo and hitting it consistently. There's no scoring ring, but he's still shooting small groups.
  

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JLouis
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #25 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 1:13pm
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I would encourage these folks to shoot 200 yard Iron Sight ASSRA benchrest matches. They would be achieving and setting new and unachievable records that have not yet been set to date while using BP. As well as winning all of their own local matches and we need these folks to help keep these local matches going. As well as helping others to be able to achieve the same.
  

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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #26 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 1:15pm
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Having shot with Dave Gullo many times, and have even worked the pits pulling his and John's targets, I can verify he shoots small groups no matter the venue.
Having shot many many gong matches can also tell you that what some spotters are calling as a hit on target isn't anywhere near where the shooters bullet actually lit and the splatter they are telling their shooter had been there for quite some time...
  
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #27 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 1:38pm
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The Desert International Blackpowder long range match entries close soon. Those interested in shooting a long range match along side of some of the best BPTR shooters in the world, ie Gullo, Venhouse, Ferringer, Fogler, Mate, Hansen etc would do well to get their entries sent in, and get busy on the loading bench. (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #28 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 2:55pm
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Here is what can be done at long range shooting with a tang sight/globe front, Win Hi Wall off crossed stix.  When a person does his or her part.  8 of 10 shot string had 1/2 min elevation. Number 9 and 10 a bit more. 
I could not to that nowadays as per aging eyesight, joint replacements, etc.
Tang sight was tilted forward so that at 900 yds setting,
the sight staff is perpendicular to the line of sight to the front sight. Also, 0.002" under the edge of the base to allow for spin drift like mentioned about the Buffington sight on TDs.
beltfed/arnie
« Last Edit: Jan 7th, 2022 at 3:02pm by beltfed »  
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Jeff_Schultz
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #29 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 3:37pm
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  That is absolutely incredible! What was the range and the approximate size of the group. I am very impressed! Smiley
  

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