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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Tang sight plumb. (Read 7622 times)
Oldbee
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Tang sight plumb.
Jan 6th, 2022 at 6:44pm
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I am new to tang sights and I may be looking at this wrong but here goes!
I am putting a MVA tang sight on my Shiloh Sharps 1874.  I know some tang sights need to be shimmed from left or right to line them up with the front sight. 
After leveling the barrel do I need to shim the tang sight base to make the staff plumb / 90 degrees from the level barrel?  Other wise one would be looking through the aperture hole at an angle, thereby closing the hole some.  Am I being to critical?
Thanks
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #1 - Jan 6th, 2022 at 6:59pm
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I use a carpenter's square across the top of the barrel, or receiver to check and adjust the staff on a tang sight. If the barrel is below receiver height, simply use a piece of flat material on top of the barrel to shim it up. You can adjust the staff on good quality tang sights so it sits vertical, or perpendicular to the bore.
As the aperture travels higher on the staff the angle to the front sight will also change slightly. But I've never worried about it, nor have I had any issues, even when adjusted well towards the top of the range for long distance shooting.
I personally don't shim bases, as i prefer to remove metal to adjust the staff to sit vertical side to side. But nothing wrong with shimming if that's what you prefer. I use the square along the side of the receiver also to check to see if the tang side leans either way. Just angle the square back towards the staff and use my dial caliper against the staff at base and top, to see how much out of perfect upright it is.
  

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JLouis
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #2 - Jan 6th, 2022 at 7:27pm
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I have personally found that you cannot rely on the side of an action. I usually use a more or the best accurate point to be found. And then you can also check any elevation deviations while going up and down using a dial indicator. If you have the means to hold the rifle level in a padded vice. I don't buy into not worrying about any small changes just do the math to see just how much one thousandths of an inch of deviation actually is at say 200 yards.and you can basically double it for every 100 yards there after. This also holds true for any windage adjustments as the sight continues to rise when either going up.and or down. For just shooting gongs with more than enough of a margin of error to cover it. It would probably not be that big of an issue but also far from actually being right to be able to get  the very best of accuracy out of your rifle.
« Last Edit: Jan 6th, 2022 at 7:36pm by JLouis »  

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Premod70
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #3 - Jan 6th, 2022 at 7:41pm
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Try adjusting the staff by having a friend move the staff slightly fore and aft while in your shooting postion with head postioned as shooting. You’ll usually end up with the staff angling slightly forward towards the muzzle.
  
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bpjack
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #4 - Jan 6th, 2022 at 7:51pm
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Be careful in shimming an MVA base.  The dent spring can rely on being in contact with the receiver without a gap.  I wondered why the detent was mushy until I removed the spacer I has installed.

Jack
  

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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #5 - Jan 6th, 2022 at 7:52pm
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To keep my aperture hole "round" to my eye when elevated for 900-1200 yds I have my staff leaning forward at bit. Otherwise you would see an ellipse and fuzzy edge. I still struggle with my glasses to get a clean picture.
kw
  
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Oldbee
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #6 - Jan 6th, 2022 at 8:59pm
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Thanks for all the good information.  This is going to be a learning cure for me.
One other question, how do you adjust the staff?  I can lean it forward or back.  It kind of snaps to the upright position in between.
  

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Old-Win
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #7 - Jan 6th, 2022 at 9:30pm
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I think the OP's question is how to set the rear tang sight so that it's perpendicular to the bubble on his front sight. 
If you can put your rifle in a padded vise, or in some kind of cradle to hold it, then confirm that your bubble is level on the front sight. Then take a little 6" level and put it along the staff of your tang sight and see if it is perpendicular (plumb). If not, you're going to have to put shim material underneath one side or the other of the base until the tang is perpendicular to your level in the front sight. You adjust the staff moving forward or backwards by a small screw in the base. You can loosen it which releases pressure on the spring which allows you to slide the staff for or aft a little bit until it's where you want it. I'm with those that lean it forward a little bit so that the holes in your aperture are round.
Sometimes you're front sight bubble is not in alignment with the side of the action. You might overcome that by loosening the screws that hold the bubble in the sight and sticking in some small piece of material (piece of styrofoam peanut) that will move the bubble a little bit up or down on one side that will help you get the rifle leveled according to the side of the receiver.
« Last Edit: Jan 6th, 2022 at 9:43pm by Old-Win »  
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Joe_S
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #8 - Jan 6th, 2022 at 11:12pm
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My understanding of the original question is that the sight has not yet been installed. If that is the case, I respectfully suggest you install it and try it. I have several MVA sights and have found that if you have the correct base for the rifle you are using, the staff will be perpendicular to the bore. I will be greatly surprised if it is not. 
However, in the event I am wrong, call MVA and describe the problem to them. They will know the best way to fix it.  Might not be something you can fix. 
Left or right deviation can be fixed by shimming or , honing  the left or right side of the bottom of the base with wet or dry emery paper  or a flat sharpening stone. 
Just my two cents, your mileage may vary!
Joe S
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #9 - Jan 6th, 2022 at 11:36pm
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Shooting gongs is does not take less accuracy than shooting off a bench at 100 or 200yds. I'm getting a little tired of this constant comment every time the subject of accuracy comes up!
1 moa is 1" at 100 yds. So at 1000 yds., it's 10" and what happens to a bullet traveling through the atmosphere at 100 yds. or 200 yds. has far less effect on the bullet, than what happens to the same bullet traveling to a 10 moa target at 1000 yds. with the bullet exiting over the speed of sound, dropping back through it, and at an arc that's 60 ft. above the ground and all those wind flags people shooting 200 yds. use.
If some person with zero knowledge of shooting past 200 yds. from the bench thinks that hitting a target at 1000 yds. takes less accuracy or skill then they need to test themselves by trying it, and then tell everybody how easy it is, or how little sight adjustments mean at 1000 yds.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #10 - Jan 6th, 2022 at 11:39pm
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Joe_S wrote on Jan 6th, 2022 at 11:12pm:
My understanding of the original question is that the sight has not yet been installed. If that is the case, I respectfully suggest you install it and try it. I have several MVA sights and have found that if you have the correct base for the rifle you are using, the staff will be perpendicular to the bore. I will be greatly surprised if it is not. 
However, in the event I am wrong, call MVA and describe the problem to them. They will know the best way to fix it.  Might not be something you can fix. 
Left or right deviation can be fixed by shimming or , honing  the left or right side of the bottom of the base with wet or dry emery paper  or a flat sharpening stone. 
Just my two cents, your mileage may vary!
Joe S


It's almost never the sight base that has a problem. It's the tangs on guns that will be off usually. Since the tangs were almost always hand finished, they on occasion will be slightly low on one edge or the other. You could order a dozen perfect MVA sights, and if one leans to one side, they all will. It wont be the MVA base causing it.
  

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oneatatime
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #11 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 12:46am
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On the other hand, there is the Buffington sight with its built in lean to compensate for rifling drift.
  
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Old-Win
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #12 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 8:44am
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oneatatime wrote on Jan 7th, 2022 at 12:46am:
On the other hand, there is the Buffington sight with its built in lean to compensate for rifling drift.


Right on oneatatime!   Cheesy So important to understand why this is.

  
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JLouis
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #13 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 9:52am
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For 100 yard rest shooting that 1 inch has to be cut in half to be able to get 10 consecutive shots into a 3/4 inch 25 ring. Same holds true for 200 yards all though it actually needs to be less to leave room for the conditions.
Are you putting 10 consecutive shots inside of a 10 inch ring at 1000 yards and if so you might actually be right. 
 
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Tang sight plumb.
Reply #14 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 10:21am
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JLouis wrote on Jan 7th, 2022 at 9:52am:
For 100 yard rest shooting that 1 inch has to be cut in half to be able to get 10 consecutive shots into a 3/4 inch 25 ring. Same holds true for 200 yards all though it actually needs to be less to leave room for the conditions.
Are you putting 10 consecutive shots inside of a 10 inch ring at 1000 yards and if so you might actually be right. 
 


I've watched guys shoot groups at 1000 yds. they could cover with their hand. And doing it off just cross sticks, not a fancy adjustable rest on a bench.
  

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