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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C W Rowland & Pope (Read 14874 times)
JLouis
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #75 - Dec 3rd, 2021 at 10:21am
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CW sorry for name error and now corrected.
  

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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #76 - Dec 3rd, 2021 at 10:37am
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Thanks Randy. I wish I'd gotten one of those sets when Rodney had them for sale. Might have to give him a call and get on a list for the next time he runs some more.
  

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RSW
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #77 - Dec 3rd, 2021 at 11:28am
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marlinguy
Not having the skills, tools, nor motivation to finish one of Rodney's casting sets, I was happy to buy a finished Pope rest. He offers them in either cast steel or brass. I'm happy with my choice of the steel version.
Back in the day, those rests were often fixed to a heavy wooden beam at shooting parks or clubs so members could sight-in rifles or test loads. The wooden box to which I attached the rest was my idea as I need something I can transport it to-from the range. When on the shooting bench, I keep it anchored with 20-30 pounds of lead ingots.
Like everything else about shooting single shot rifles, there are techniques to getting the most out of a shooting rest. When it comes to handling the rifle on the double rest, I've learned less is more.
  

Randy W
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There are indeed two Americas. Simply put, it is not the haves and have nots. The two Americans are in reality divided into those who do and those who don't.
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marlinguy
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #78 - Dec 3rd, 2021 at 12:38pm
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I too would want to build a box that will allow transport without needing an engine hoist to get it in and out of my Suburban! So I like your box approach, and especially the reinforcing corners to ensure it stays together over years of use. I'll probably steal your design if I can get a casting set, or finished castings from Rodney.
Not sure what it takes to finish a casting set? If it's a mill and other precise equipment I would buy them finished as my little Chinese mill and lathe wont do very precise work.
  

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RSW
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #79 - Dec 3rd, 2021 at 1:41pm
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IMO, finishing the castings seemed like too much of a hassle (see photo of casting set below). For someone with the skills and tools it's probably no big deal to finish them.

My Pope rest box is an I beam design with end caps. Minimum of cutting required to make and with glue and screws it seems strong enough to last years. I used Burch I bought at Home Depot. Looked through pieces in the store to get nice straight wood. The box is light, at least until I put 20-30 pounds of lead ingots in it. I put rubber feet on the box so it doesn't slide on the concrete shooting table top.

I'm happy with the whole rig.
  

Randy W
ASSRA 10211  -  ISSA 125
There are indeed two Americas. Simply put, it is not the haves and have nots. The two Americans are in reality divided into those who do and those who don't.
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marlinguy
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #80 - Dec 3rd, 2021 at 5:19pm
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I like the I beam design. I had contemplated a boxed in box, with the lid having the rest bolted to it, so things could be stored inside. But that would make a heavier box, and if the top was hinged it might not be as solid.
I use a modern shooting rest, and it works great. But it just looks weird to be shooting a nice old single shot in a modern rest.
  

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JLouis
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #81 - Dec 4th, 2021 at 11:11am
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Hopefully he will be able to share more. 

I wanted to take a minute to introduce myself.  I am Mike Rowland, CW was my great, great grandfather.  Bob Rowland was my dad and Ray Day was his best friend.  I remember as a kid casting bullets and shooting these fine guns with my dad.  I hope to some day to get the guns back in the family.  My dad had to do it when he tracked them down and purchased them from CC Hawkins. 

Anyway, finding this thread as sparked renewed interest.  I will blow off the dust and see if i can find some photos/targets/notes if anyone is interested.

Best regards,

Mike Rowland
  

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calledflyer
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #82 - Dec 4th, 2021 at 11:46am
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where'd you find that? or, is it another secret?
  
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Dellet
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #83 - Dec 4th, 2021 at 11:58am
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calledflyer wrote on Dec 4th, 2021 at 11:46am:
where'd you find that? or, is it another secret?


No big secret, but not much new in the past 12 years

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calledflyer
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #84 - Dec 4th, 2021 at 12:04pm
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ah, so has this man ever responded, adding substance to the things in the posting? I never read that and probably wouldn't have thought of a twelve year-old post anyway. So, if it's really true, where's he at now?
And thanks for the link- the other guy was keeping that to himself.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #85 - Dec 4th, 2021 at 12:52pm
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calledflyer wrote on Dec 4th, 2021 at 12:04pm:
ah, so has this man ever responded, adding substance to the things in the posting? I never read that and probably wouldn't have thought of a twelve year-old post anyway. So, if it's really true, where's he at now?
And thanks for the link- the other guy was keeping that to himself.


I really have no idea what the heck an 11 year old post has to do with it, when it doesn't prove anything to confirm claims made? But I appreciate Dellet finding it as the reply by "william iorg" certainly has some great info researched by Townsend Whelen in the Sportsman's Press article on the record group by Rowland.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #86 - Dec 4th, 2021 at 12:54pm
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The Ultimate in Rifle Precision

By: Townsend Whelen

Sportsman's Press, 1951

 

THE WORLD'S   RECORD   AT 200 YARDS

American riflemen have always considered the group of ten shots at 200 yards fired by Mr. C. W. Rowland of Boulder, Colorado on May 16, 1901 as being the World's Record for accuracy. Other rifles and ammunition which have made records at longer distances have never equaled this at 200 yards, and thus we think that this target can be properly regarded as The Record.

Mr. Rowland's target, which is reproduced here in the exact size from the original, was shot with a .32-40 breech-muzzle loading barrel made by H. M. Pope, in a Ballard action. It was shot from a machine rest, probably the Pope rest, in which the naked barrel is uniformly rested at the breech and close to the muzzle, the rifle being shot with its butt-stock on it, and the butt-plate being caught and braked by the hand after a short recoil travel. The charge was a lead alloy bullet of unknown weight (probably 180 to 200 grains) lubricated with Leopold's lubricant (same as the present Ideal Lubricant), and propelled by a charge of Hazards FG black powder. The bullet was loaded from the muzzle in the usual Pope manner, and the case filled with powder inserted from the breech. Mr. Rowland has noted the weather as “No wind,” and “Sprinkling;” conditions most favorable for black powder.

Mr. Rowland's target has been measured very carefully. There is no way to measure it with a great degree of accuracy that I know of, so I will outline the manner in which it was measured. We made this assumption: in the target above the record target there is one distinct bullet hole. The assumption is that this shot displaced the same amount of paper as the shots in the record target. This seems to be a safe assumption as presumably the rifle, paper and bullet were the same.

We measured this single hole quite carefully”€¯optically under 4X magnification. The average diameter of this hole is .245-inch. Then we carefully measured the extreme spread of the record group”€¯that is the extreme of the displaced paper. This figure is .970-inch. Subtracting the diameter of a single bullet hole (.245” displaced paper) gives an extreme spread, center to center, of .725-inch for the Rowland record group.

The target edges here are irregular. The group has been much handled and apparently the outline of the group has been traced many times before it was mounted, so I do not believe it can be measured any more..
  

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rkba2nd
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #87 - Dec 4th, 2021 at 2:58pm
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   Somewhat off topic, but considering other chains of thought on this post, not so much. Some may find it interesting, that W.R.Weaver of scope fame, announced in a brochure to debut his 330 scope, a mechanical rest, "similar" to Popes. It is listed at ten dollars, which in the early thirties, was rather expensive. I wonder if Pope was 'flattered" that another would see fit to market a mechanical rest, as he was still very much alive at that time. It appears to be a competitive offering, as was Mr. Weavers claim to fame, a good product at a fair price. It certainly served him well.         
   I have only observed the one pictured in the brochure, and never actually handled one. This was when Weaver was still located in Kentucky, before his move to El Paso. Possibly why they are not common. I would be very interested to know of one in someone's possession, and to see it better than the poor rendition in the brochure, and to know if it functioned well,     Krag
  

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JLouis
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #88 - Dec 4th, 2021 at 3:55pm
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I am more interested in his Dad's connection with Ray Day.
  

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JLouis
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #89 - Dec 4th, 2021 at 5:20pm
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I believe someone here had asked it CW Roland's Group had possibly been exceeded by shooting something other than cast bullets.
In the below link if you scroll down there is a conversation about someone doing just that.

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