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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C W Rowland & Pope (Read 14879 times)
JLouis
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #30 - Nov 29th, 2021 at 12:39am
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So just how many days did it actually take for CW Rowland to shoot that one group. And did he actually do it outside in the actual conditions for a given day. Or in a more protected place for him to be able to accomplish it over more than just one day?
  

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40_Rod
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #31 - Nov 29th, 2021 at 9:57am
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He did shoot it outdoors and I belive it was shot over two days. Rowland did experiment with shooting in a mine but found that there was no escape from the wind as wind currents existed in the mine also.

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marlinguy
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #32 - Nov 29th, 2021 at 10:07am
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Since Rowland mentions weather conditions, it would seem it was shot outdoors. Rowland did some testing an a mine he had access to for shooting when the weather was poor. But it seems his record group was not shot in the mine.
  

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RSW
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #33 - Nov 30th, 2021 at 11:59am
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Below is the photo of C.W. Rowland's target that appeared in Shooting and Fishing magazine in 1901.
Rowland's hand-written notes read:

10 Consecutive shots 200 yds
Machine rest, Telescope sights
No Wind
Sprinkling
Pope 32/40
Leopold Lubricant
Shot May 16  1901
by
C.W. Rowland, Boulder, Colo
« Last Edit: Nov 30th, 2021 at 8:22pm by RSW »  

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ledball
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #34 - Dec 1st, 2021 at 4:35pm
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Any guess who the shooter was to beat Pope’s target with any rifle, J Borton was probably the first with a cast bullet rifle, D Reynolds brought the group down farther, and J Schultz shot a .634 this summer. I don’t remember any better 10 shot groups shot before the mid fifties.   Ledball
  
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Mick B
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #35 - Dec 1st, 2021 at 6:14pm
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Interesting  details on the target, unfortunately two important details are missing like the powder type, charge, and the bullet used.
Mike.

  
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #36 - Dec 1st, 2021 at 6:48pm
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This is an old thread that pertains to Mr. Rowland as well as his load; 

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JLouis
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #37 - Dec 1st, 2021 at 7:15pm
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Jack Hughes / Jan Pritchard also did so and below is a picture of his target and his size group size was .577.
And Jim Borton has actually done it more than just the one time.
Dale Reynolds group was a .656. 
If there are any more I personally have not seen them being  published since 2012 so there very well could be. 
When Jim Borton shot his first one he and his wife were actually here visiting with me and my wife and family. 
And he shot it here at the Modesto Rifle club while sitting next to me on one of our practice outings. 
And he was also the first one to do so.

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« Last Edit: Dec 1st, 2021 at 7:24pm by JLouis »  

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JLouis
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #38 - Dec 1st, 2021 at 7:35pm
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Might also add there was a real good write up about these three who have all surpassed CW Rolands group size. 
You can find it the Single Shot Rifle Journal, July / August 2012, Vol. 65, No. 4.
  

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ledball
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #39 - Dec 1st, 2021 at 8:58pm
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Most of us forum members know about the recent targets shot beating Rowland’s “record” with cast bullets but, someone between 1901 and 2010 must have shot a better 10 shot 200yd target with a hi-powered rifle.  The .222 REM in 1950 was a game changer —- it probably happened in the fifties. Ledball
  
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JLouis
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #40 - Dec 1st, 2021 at 10:09pm
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???? Not sure what it is you are asking as there are no 
similarities at all between the two.
« Last Edit: Dec 2nd, 2021 at 10:39am by JLouis »  

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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #41 - Dec 1st, 2021 at 10:48pm
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John, I think what you meant to say was, there are few similarities tween the two, just as there are few between Rowlands record group and groups that have bested it over 100 years later. Apples and oranges. I have a certificate awarded to a gentleman, Ragan R. Robinson, who in 1957, shot an aggregate average of .3795 minute of angle in shooting from a rest for five ten shot matches at 100 yards, and five ten shot matches at 200 yards. Established at Tulsa Oklahoma, June 22, 1957. Awarded by the NBRSA of America this fifth day of August 1957. A scant few years after the NBRSA was formed. Apples and oranges. This is not meant to take anything away from any of the accomplishments, just to point out that much has changed since Rowland shot his group, and apparently one hundred eleven years later when it was broken. Of some interest, The NBRSA groups were shot with a Pfeifer cut rifled barrel.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #42 - Dec 2nd, 2021 at 10:11am
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The October 1902 Outdoor life article written about Rowland's record group states the following"
"The load used in making the target was 3 grains of Dupont No. 1 smokeless, 7 1/2 U.M.C. primer, and the shell nearly full of Hazard Fg powder, making a bulk charge of about 46 grs. Before using the powder was carefully sifted through several sieves to perfectly sure that it was of even grain. Bullets were cast 1 to 10, lubricated with Leopold's No. 5 lubricant. Oleo grease wads were employed. Rest was a Stevens-Pope No.1 rear and No.2 front, supported on a very heavy wooden frame, deeply seated in the earth, and strongly braced."

So it seems his load was not smokeless as I've seen described in some reports, but a duplex with smokeless priming charge. Which begs the question if anyone has beaten his record shooting BP, or a duplex charge?
  

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JLouis
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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #43 - Dec 2nd, 2021 at 11:00am
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As was previously pointed out.

  

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Re: C W Rowland & Pope
Reply #44 - Dec 2nd, 2021 at 12:11pm
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marlinguy
Nice job in covering Rowland's load used to shoot this famous group.

Mick B asked about the bullet Rowland used. While I have not come across just what bullet he used, it would have looked about like the one pictured below. That drawing is from a bullet cast from a Pope mold. It weighs in at 185 grains. Rowland would have used a bullet of similar design, likely from the bullet mold Pope supplied with the barrel he sold to Rowland.

Back several years ago while I was researching and writing my book The Golden Age of the American Schuetzenfest, I did a lot of shooting with black and duplex loads trying to duplicate the accuracy achieved back in the day. With good range conditions, I was able to get fairly consistent 1.5 MOA and sometimes close to 1 MOA, 10-shot groups at 200 yards with both straight black and duplex. Shot bench rest of course but not from a machine rest such as Rowland used.
« Last Edit: Dec 2nd, 2021 at 12:18pm by RSW »  

Randy W
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