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Bulseyetom
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bullet casting cadence question
Nov 6th, 2021 at 6:57pm
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I am going to fire up the pot in the next few days and cast a few more bullets with 40:1 alloy.  I will be casting two bullets, the first a 515 grain 50 caliber with an aluminum mould and the second a 400 grain 40 caliber bullet with a brass mould.  Two or three questions come to mind as I have always just used one mould at a time for a casting session.  First, would it be a problem to cast a bullet, set the mould on my warming stove and then cast another with the second mould and repeat?  Not sure if the two types of metal moulds would be a problem.  Second, would it be feasible to use the same temperature with 40:1 in a 40 caliber and 50 caliber mould?  I have been getting good uniform bullets with each mould with 20:1 alloy at 780 and have been using 750 with the 40:1.  The 50 caliber bullet with the aluminum mould seems to want to stick in the mould if I go to fast and thought maybe using two moulds might help solve my impatience if that is possible!  Thanks for any inputs and suggested casting temperatures.  Tom
  
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westerner
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Re: bullet casting cadence question
Reply #1 - Nov 6th, 2021 at 7:25pm
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Take a chance. Try it and let us know how it works out. 

Myself, I have cast bullets with two molds many times with no problems. Have heard that some casters prefer to use two molds. Sometimes a mold will get to hot, casting with a second mold will keep the problem mold from overheating.
  

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JLouis
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Re: bullet casting cadence question
Reply #2 - Nov 6th, 2021 at 7:38pm
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Tom myself I would recommend using but one mould and as going as fast as you possibly can go.
With the exception of not wanting to keep them all within 4 tenths.
At which time you can then separate them all by weight. 
But then again is this in regards to very serious Benchrest 200 yard competition or possibly something else.
If so it really probably does not matter all that much and thee most important part of it all is in that you are truly enjoying yourself!!
  

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Re: bullet casting cadence question
Reply #3 - Nov 6th, 2021 at 7:52pm
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I cast with two molds 90% of the time.i find it works out well.Sometimes I'll let one mold "rest"  if its overheating and cycle the other two or three times.it just depends on the molds material and "temperment"
Pot temp all the way up and cast fast

  
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Joe_S
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Re: bullet casting cadence question
Reply #4 - Nov 6th, 2021 at 10:52pm
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each mold has its own preferences as to temperature etc, but I use two molds almost always with a hotplate and it works as well if not better than using one mold. Once the molds are up to the proper temperature, the the "resting" time that one mold is on the hot plate allows you to work the other mold. The warming plate keeps the mold warm in the event you have to interrupt your timing to deal with a bullet that wont drop, or to flux or whatever. I would be surprised to find that a variation of ten or twenty degrees in casting temp will make a noticeable difference in the bullets, but maybe it will. Joe S
  
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ballardhepburnmich
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Re: bullet casting cadence question
Reply #5 - Nov 7th, 2021 at 1:35am
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I regularly cast with two sometimes three molds,and when they're up to temperature I just set them down on the pad where I catch the bullets. Works great for me. 
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George Babits
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Re: bullet casting cadence question
Reply #6 - Nov 7th, 2021 at 9:30am
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Just one mould at a time has worked well for me for over 60 years of casting.  Bullets have ranged from 55 grain 22 caliber to 58 caliber minie' and all sorts of alloys from pure lead to linotype.    Keeps things pretty simple and if the mould gets too hot I take a break for a few minutes.

George
  
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Re: bullet casting cadence question
Reply #7 - Nov 7th, 2021 at 10:03am
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I’m thinking that your overall productivity would go up without a decrease in quality. For me when casting heavy bullets 535 gn + I wait about 13 to 15 seconds after frosting appears to dump the bullet, at that timing no pits in the sprue cut and the bullet has shrunk enough that it falls easily, but I cast at 815. In that 13 to 15 second wait I could charge another mold. That’s where the time would be found I believe.
Richard
  
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marlinguy
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Re: bullet casting cadence question
Reply #8 - Nov 7th, 2021 at 10:34am
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I also cast with two molds most of the time, just so I get more bullets cast and don't waste time watching the one mold sprue cool. It actually slows me down enough that when I knock the sprues off I'm not tearing lead from the bullet bases, and my bullets are more consistent in weight.
Aluminum molds have always given me some issues, but I still use a few that cast nice bullets. I polish the bottom of the sprue plates to a 400 grit mirror finish, and use dry graphite on the bottom to keep them from galling the top of the blocks. I've also occasionally dusted the cavities with powdered graphite if they have issues dropping bullets easily. I use an old paint brush to brush the graphite on so there's no excess in the cavity.
  

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JLouis
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Re: bullet casting cadence question
Reply #9 - Nov 7th, 2021 at 10:40am
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It only takes me about 50 minutes to cast a 120 match grade bullets using but one mould. As soon as the sprue freezes it is cut off and the bullet dropped and I very quickly re-fill the mould again. I keep up this same cadence going all the way to the end of a 120 bullet batch. Bullets come out weighing within 4 tenths and then are visually inspected for any noticable flaws. That is what the extra 20 are for and I usually end up with about 10 give or take in a 100 bullet batch and if not used they go back into the pot. I also cast at 800+ degrees and I do Ladle pour and I also shoot them in the order as cast. But I also only shoot competitively and if I did not it probably wouldn't matter all that much just how I actually went about it. I also use an Ove Glove and cut the sprues by hand. If required a small tap with a plastic mallet is also used to get a bullet to drop out. Pot is also a Lyman Mag 25 Digital Melting Furnace and alloy of choice has typically been 1-16. So far the Lyman Digital pot has been holding a constant temperature quite well and nothing goes back into the pot until the entire casting session has been done. Not sure if this is of any help and just wanted to share abit more on how I go about it for my own personal usage.
  

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Re: bullet casting cadence question
Reply #10 - Nov 7th, 2021 at 10:49am
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Ill give you me method for casting this method nets me bullets that stawithin .01 of a grain per 100 grains of total weight.
First you dont say wether you cast bottom pour or with a ladle. I highly reccomend the ladle for consistency.
Depending on the bullet's volume you will need to change your temperature. Smaller bullets want more heat larger bullets want less. you have to experiment with the heat as soon as the sprue hardens you should be able to drop the bullet, if the bullet sticks turn down until all of your bullets fall out of the mould. 
Now cast as fast as the mould will let you as soon as the sprue hardens push off the plate, drop the bullet, close the mold and pour again.
I cast 10 and put them back in the pot at the top of the heating cycle one at a time. 

This should give you good bullets for an entire batch. 

40 Rod
  
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Re: bullet casting cadence question
Reply #11 - Nov 7th, 2021 at 10:51am
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JohnL
Thanks for posting your concise bullet casting tutorial. As you know a thing or two about accurate BR shooting with cast bullets, your techniques are well worth knowing. In the contacts you and I have had, I've picked up valuable tips on improving the quality of my cast bullets.
Keep up the good work.
  

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JLouis
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Re: bullet casting cadence question
Reply #12 - Nov 7th, 2021 at 12:55pm
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The bullet itself is probably the most important component when it comes to competitive shooting no matter what ones individual shooting sport might be. This would also hold true if just wanting to get out to shoot small groups or possibly steel at a say a 1000 yards and just for the challenge / fun of it all. It is also really not that more difficult to cast match grade bullets than for one not to do so. But often times it is also the one component that does not seem to get the correct amount of attention towards perfection that it really needs to have. In regards to weight, balance, a lack of internal casting voids, external inclusions, the BC, the proper length and etc. Simply put accuracy is an extensive list of the least amount of variables as is possible for one to be able obtain. And as you can see the bullet alone can have several variables based on how it is actually being cast. I was also trying to send a picture of several cast bullets with voids just under the outside skin. They were uncovered when the bullets were put into a vibratory case cleaner but I can't seem to send them to my pictures from a friends PDF file that he had sent to me. Well hopefully this too might be helpful to some of you folks here and probably enough being said.
  

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Re: bullet casting cadence question
Reply #13 - Nov 7th, 2021 at 2:06pm
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Thanks to all who responded.  I have a digital RCBS pot and am ladle pouring.  I set the temperature to 800 degrees for today's run using 40:1 foundry alloy.  I preheated an aluminum 50 caliber 515 grain mould and a 40 caliber 400 grain brass mould on my hotplate.  I cast 10 sacrificial bullets from each mould than cast for keeps by running moulds alternatively and then setting the mould waiting to be emptied onto the hotplate set just below medium.  I cast 60 of each and decided that the pot was getting low enough to end the session and see what my results were.  To begin with, whether it was the increase in casting temperature or letting the mould cool longer is hard to say as I had two variables at play, the bullets tended to drop out of both mould pretty good with a marked improvement in the 50 caliber aluminum one.  Second, the aluminum mould was ready to cast good bullets sooner than the brass 40 caliber mould.  I had only  three fifty caliber bullets that failed my weight criteria of plus or minus 1 grain for a 515 grain bullet.  The brass mould had seven rejects.  After the rejects were culled, both moulds produced a bell shaped weight curve.  All in all, a very rewarding experience.  My next session I will try just a single brass mould, a 40 caliber 350 grain gas check bullet, with the 40:1 at 800 degrees and see what happens by cast about 150 bullets an hour or so.  So far my experiment of using 40:1 alloy in my 40-70SS at 1600 fps has been successful with good accuracy and no leading.  The 50-70 is about 1300 fps I guess and again very accurate and no leading.  I have pulled the scopes off of my 50-70 Roller and 40-70 SS Sharps and it is time to get my hunting loads fine tuned.  I think I might stick with black in my 40-70 Hepburn just because I need one hunting rifle dedicated to the way it was done in 1880.  Tom
  
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Re: bullet casting cadence question
Reply #14 - Nov 16th, 2021 at 11:01am
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Here is the picture showing the voids just under the skin of the bullets I was referring to earlier. After these bullets were cast they looked visually perfect. They were then placed into a vibratory case cleaner for a few hours and this is what showed up. This is just a picture of a couple of those bullets and some of the others were actually even worse. Mould is an Egan MX3 and the Alloy is Linotype. This would be in regards to unbalanced bullets, accuracy and possible casting methods / cadence  Rifle a CBA Heavy Class in 30BR. Sent to me by Bob Birmely a National Record holder and a Schuetzen competitor. 
What do you folks think might be causing these air pockets / voids. And are we too possibly and unknowingly getting the same results with our lead and tin alloys from our own individual casting methods. Ii believe it was Charlie Dell who also found the same and possibly Dr.Mann. And both of them were in regards to lead and tin bullets so Linotype would not be the issue. 
Please share your thoughts as this is one of those variables that has to be eliminated in the pursuit of achieving the best in accuracy. 

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