Page Index Toggle Pages: [1]  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Lucky Favorite (Read 6504 times)
chipmaker
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 346
Location: san diego
Joined: Sep 24th, 2007
Lucky Favorite
Sep 7th, 2021 at 4:47pm
Print Post  
I just acquired a Stevens Favorite with the serial number 777 and had a few questions for the Stevens collectors.
The rifle has a 24" barrel with octagon in the rear and tapered round, starting just in front of the forend. It is marked 25 Stevens and chambered for the 25 RF cartridge. The barrel is also marked with the J. Stevens Arms and Tool Company and Chicopee Falls address. The action is marked "Trademark, Favorite, US Patent Off & FGN" on the top flat. The extractor is located at 6 O'clock and is the narrow type.The number 777 is on the bottom tang and the top tang has no marking but is tapped for a tang sight, with a screw spacing of 1.488".
I'll attach a selection of pictures and can attach additional pictures, if needed.
I wonder how common custom numbers are seen on Stevens rifles? Does anyone know what tang sight, with the 1.488" spacing, may have been used?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Otto
« Last Edit: Sep 7th, 2021 at 4:55pm by chipmaker »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
westerner
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


deleted posts and threads
record holder.

Posts: 11512
Location: Why, out West of course
Joined: May 29th, 2006
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #1 - Sep 7th, 2021 at 4:59pm
Print Post  
You're thinking 777 is a custom number?
  

A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sure shot
Oldtimer
*****
Online



Posts: 913
Location: East central Iowa
Joined: Jun 22nd, 2020
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #2 - Sep 7th, 2021 at 6:01pm
Print Post  
Interesting favorite. The earliest favorites had serial numbers with the number stamped on the lower tang and matching number on the barrel just ahead of the forearm on the bottom. After selling a huge amount of favorites Stevens went with assembly numbers, typically with a letter and three digit number code. With the trade mark Stevens stamping on the top flat of the frame, my guess is that it is one of the last 1894 model favorites made before switching over to the 1915 model. 
Is the Stevens A&T stamping on the top flat of the barrel or on the right side flat, sometimes thought of as upside down?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
chipmaker
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 346
Location: san diego
Joined: Sep 24th, 2007
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #3 - Sep 7th, 2021 at 9:26pm
Print Post  
Westerner
Why not?
Sure shot
Yes. A late model 1894, with the narrow 6 O'clock extractor. 
No numbers on the barrel except the 25 Stevens marking.
Yes. The Stevens A&T marking is on the right side flat and upside down.
Any idea on the tang sight?
Otto
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
slumlord44
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2850
Location: Lebanon, Illinois 62254
Joined: Dec 21st, 2007
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #4 - Sep 7th, 2021 at 11:56pm
Print Post  
The hole spacing on the tang sight is always referred to as 1 1/2 inches. There were a couple of sight options on these using standard Stevens tang sights and front sight combinations. Plus they would sell you any sight that would fit and since they were all 1 1/2"  space on the sight pretty much anything goes. Lyman sights were also available from Stevens.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
westerner
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


deleted posts and threads
record holder.

Posts: 11512
Location: Why, out West of course
Joined: May 29th, 2006
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #5 - Sep 8th, 2021 at 1:53am
Print Post  
Because they are just stamped numbers?  No provenance?
  

A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
chipmaker
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 346
Location: san diego
Joined: Sep 24th, 2007
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #6 - Sep 8th, 2021 at 12:24pm
Print Post  
Westerner
Just kidding about the numbers. No provenance. I don't see any additional numbers but haven't taken the action apart yet. I wonder if it might be an assembly number. 
If the 777 is a serial number wouldn't this make the action earlier, than the extractor suggests?
44
I think that the holes are on nominal 1.5" centers. Do you know which Lyman or Stevens tang sights may have been used on the Favorite?
Otto
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Dellet
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1099
Joined: May 19th, 2017
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #7 - Sep 8th, 2021 at 1:02pm
Print Post  
chipmaker wrote on Sep 8th, 2021 at 12:24pm:
Westerner
Just kidding about the numbers. No provenance. I don't see any additional numbers but haven't taken the action apart yet. I wonder if it might be an assembly number. 
If the 777 is a serial number wouldn't this make the action earlier, than the extractor suggests?
44
I think that the holes are on nominal 1.5" centers. Do you know which Lyman or Stevens tang sights may have been used on the Favorite?
Otto


There is generally a letter used with the number, on yours it looks like it may have been a U or B. It's where the lever contacts the lower tang.

As for sights a Lyman #1 or 2 are an option. I have one that had a Stevens vernier on it when I got it. Marbles makes one, A Montana Vintage Arms will fit. 

I think the correct letter code for a Lyman base is "F".
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #8 - Sep 8th, 2021 at 10:34pm
Print Post  
444 cannot be a serial number.  Favorites were in the high five digits while they still had the 7:00 extractor.  If memory serves, they were into four digits while it was still the "side plate" design.
  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
chipmaker
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 346
Location: san diego
Joined: Sep 24th, 2007
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #9 - Sep 8th, 2021 at 11:04pm
Print Post  
Dellet
I knew about the letters in the later models of the 1894 Favorites but didn't realize that they were so far away from the numbers.
You are correct that there is a letter, where the lever touches the lower tang. I'd guess that the letter is a "U". 
Attached is a photo of the area.
Thank you for the tang sight information as well. 
uscra112
Do you agree that the addition of a letter and number, along with the extractor type and location, is consistent with a late model 1894 Favorite?
Otto
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #10 - Sep 9th, 2021 at 3:26am
Print Post  
Not even that late.  I've only recently started paying the same attention to the Favorites as I have the Model 44.  It appears that the transition from the serial number to a lot number happened around 1896, close the the same time as they changed the breechblock cutaway from the early sharp angle to the radiused shape yours has.  The 6:00 extractor seems to have appeared around 1900.  When the width of the extractor changed is anybody's guess, AFAIK.   

They made a helluvalot of '94 model Favorites, possibly approaching a million by WW1.  No wonder that they're so common today.   

Barring horrendous abuse, the only things that you commonly find in need of help are the bore, which suffered through the era of corrosive priming, and the linkage.  The link was made of mild steel, and the holes open up from the stress of firing, especially firing with high speed smokeless ammo.  Bores can be relined, and the linkage can be restored by installing oversize (4 mm) pins.
  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sure shot
Oldtimer
*****
Online



Posts: 913
Location: East central Iowa
Joined: Jun 22nd, 2020
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #11 - Sep 9th, 2021 at 6:57am
Print Post  
It is the Trade mark favorite stamping on the top of the frame that leads me to believe that it is a very late model 1894 favorite. Your rifle also has a 24 inch barrel rather than the standard 22 inch barrel which makes it more interesting.
The favorite with standard open sights was cataloged as a #17.
A #18  came with a Stevens tang sight. The #19 came with the Lyman tang sight.
The favorite is a good one to collect because of all of the changes and variations since it was made from the 1890’s to 1939, and by Stevens and Savage.
« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2021 at 7:51am by Sure shot »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
chipmaker
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 346
Location: san diego
Joined: Sep 24th, 2007
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #12 - Sep 9th, 2021 at 1:01pm
Print Post  
Thanks to all the members, who took the time to answer my questions.
I have a bit of repair work on the broken buttstock toe and buttplate but overall the lucky Favorite is in fine shape, with an excellent bore and tight action.
The bore slugs at .251" and 27 caliber nail gun cartridges are a perfect fit. I plan to shoot this Favorite breech seated, once the proper lead bullets arrive.
Otto
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #13 - Sep 9th, 2021 at 4:20pm
Print Post  
Most nail gun loads are far too energetic for a '94 Favorite.  Only the very lightest are even reasonable.
  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
chipmaker
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 346
Location: san diego
Joined: Sep 24th, 2007
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #14 - Sep 9th, 2021 at 11:20pm
Print Post  
uscra 112,
They do warn about the danger of using the high powered nail gun cartridges in nail guns designed for the weaker cartridges.
The 25 Stevens RF smokeless load is listed as using a 65 grain bullet and had a velocity that is said to have been 1180 fps.
My plan was to use a Stevens 44 1/2 rifle to test a 50 grain bullet and check the velocity, with the low powered 27 caliber nail gun cartridge. 
Do you think that a muzzle velocity below 1100  fps is an adequate indicator of safe operating pressure for the Favorite? 
If not, I suppose I could turn some 25 RF cartridges, powered by 22 RF cartridges, without their bullets.
Otto
« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2021 at 11:26pm by chipmaker »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #15 - Sep 10th, 2021 at 12:14am
Print Post  
A while ago I was using .22 caliber nailgun charges in adapters to shoot .32 rimfire in a 1915 Favorite.  The lowest (coded grey if I remember right) were soft enough. The next up are brown, and they were also OK.  Noting that a 1915 is considerably stronger than an 1894, due to its' wider link. 

I tried a few brown coded .27 nailgun charges in a .25 Stevens 44, with no bullet, and had a dickens of a time getting them to extract.  Haven't continued with that experiment.   The 44 has been converted to centerfire, (by swapping in a CF breechblock),  and I'm using cases formed from Hornet brass.

It's possible, but laborious, to make passable .25 Stevens out of .17WSM, but a Favorite won't fire  them - the rims are too hard/thick.  I'm shooting those only in a 1938 Model 83 bolt action. 

If you can swallow the prices, there  is NOS ammo available on auction sites, and you can buy a kit from Sharpshooter Supply to reprime spent cases.   
« Last Edit: Sep 10th, 2021 at 12:19am by uscra112 »  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
chipmaker
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 346
Location: san diego
Joined: Sep 24th, 2007
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #16 - Sep 10th, 2021 at 1:51pm
Print Post  
uscra112 
Thanks for sharing your experience with the favorite. 
My favorite handles the 27 caliber nail gun cartridge, without a bullet, just fine, with good ignition and extraction. However, I'm concerned enough about damage to the rifle, that I don't think, that I'll proceed with further experiments, with the Favorite.
Otto
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sure shot
Oldtimer
*****
Online



Posts: 913
Location: East central Iowa
Joined: Jun 22nd, 2020
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #17 - Sep 10th, 2021 at 3:15pm
Print Post  
I’ve breech seated and fired both the level 3 (green) and level 4 (yellow) .27 caliber nail gun loads in my 44 1/2 .25 Stevens, the green loads seemed really mild, the yellow loads had quite a bit more zing. The green loads extracted okay, but the yellow loads cases bulged and had to be removed with a cleaning rod. I found both loads to be very dirty to shoot with lots of fouling. It was also very easy to slip the nail gun loads past the extractor being such a short case, which was a pain, and difficult to remove. I much prefer shooting and using .17 wsm ammo converted to .25 Stevens in my rifles. Now I have only fired a few of the converted rounds made from .17 wsm in both a 1915 and 1894 favorite, but I think they all fired fine. 

I think your favorite would probably handle the .27 caliber brown loads (level 2) just fine.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
chipmaker
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 346
Location: san diego
Joined: Sep 24th, 2007
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #18 - Sep 11th, 2021 at 10:48am
Print Post  
Sure Shot
Did you happen to check the velocity of your nail gun loads? 
What bullet were you breech seating?
Otto
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sure shot
Oldtimer
*****
Online



Posts: 913
Location: East central Iowa
Joined: Jun 22nd, 2020
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #19 - Sep 11th, 2021 at 1:54pm
Print Post  
No I didn’t check the velocity.
I used 55 grain cast bullets sized .251, meant for .25 acp, from Rim Rock bullets.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #20 - Sep 11th, 2021 at 6:43pm
Print Post  
You may want to recheck your barrel, chipmaker.

I've now got five .25 Stevens rifles of various models, and all of them slug .257 more or less, including a near-mint Model 83.

ndnchf has a #4 Rolling Block, which, after obtaining supply of .251 bullets, he also discovered is .257 groove diameter. 

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links);   (post #53)

I too have supply of .25 aCP bullets that I bought early on, having read in Barnes that the .25 Stevens had a .251 bullet.  I should emulate him and swage mine up to .258.
« Last Edit: Sep 11th, 2021 at 6:50pm by uscra112 »  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #21 - Sep 11th, 2021 at 6:55pm
Print Post  
Scroll up from post #53 to see how he's made an adapter from .22 Hornet.  Lot of work, but once done it's reloadable.
  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
chipmaker
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 346
Location: san diego
Joined: Sep 24th, 2007
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #22 - Sep 11th, 2021 at 7:44pm
Print Post  
Sure Shot
I also bought my bullets (.251") from Rim Rock. Very fast delivery. Brown nail gun cartridges from Amazon are on their way.
uscra112
Both the slug and chamber cast revealed a groove diameter of .251" in my Favorite. Do you have any data that the .257"barrels indicate a later production?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #23 - Sep 11th, 2021 at 10:57pm
Print Post  
Both my sideplate .25 Stevens Favorite (1892/93), which is in pretty good condition, and the Model 83 (1938) are .257.  Ditto my '94 Favorite, (post-1900), and both of my Model 12s (ca. 1912).   Where a .250 barrel fits in I haven't a clue. If they exist at all it must have been for a very short while.
  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sure shot
Oldtimer
*****
Online



Posts: 913
Location: East central Iowa
Joined: Jun 22nd, 2020
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #24 - Sep 12th, 2021 at 6:24am
Print Post  
I need to slug the bores of my .25 Stevens rifles, I have 4 with excellent bores. I did try to insert the .251 sized bullets into the muzzles of my rifles. With the 044 1/2 the bullet went in easily with no engraving of the lands, and on my 44 1/2 ditto. I tried it on my 1915 favorite and model 45-44 1/2 that was factory re-barreled  by Savage owned Stevens, the bullets took a fair amount of thumb pressure to insert the bullets and were lightly engraved by the lands. So it seems with my small examples, the Savage made Stevens have smaller bores.
My O44 1/2, which I enjoy shooting, would benefit greatly with larger diameter bullets.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #25 - Sep 12th, 2021 at 6:27am
Print Post  
Don't leave that 044-1/2 where I can see it.  It might grow legs! Grin
  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sure shot
Oldtimer
*****
Online



Posts: 913
Location: East central Iowa
Joined: Jun 22nd, 2020
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #26 - Sep 12th, 2021 at 6:46am
Print Post  
uscra112 wrote on Sep 12th, 2021 at 6:27am:
Don't leave that 044-1/2 where I can see it.  It might grow legs! Grin

It’s a nice little rifle, it has a Lyman 438 scope with a post reticle.

I do believe that my Savage made Stevens .25 RF barrels, do have larger bores then a .251 diameter.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
chipmaker
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 346
Location: san diego
Joined: Sep 24th, 2007
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #27 - Sep 12th, 2021 at 12:53pm
Print Post  
uscra112
Your 25 caliber rifle bores of 257" groove diameter sure span a wide range of Steven's barrel production.
The attached photo shows a .257" lead bullet, that was driven through the barrel, of my Favorite, from the breech end.
Otto
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ndnchf
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1066
Joined: Mar 6th, 2014
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #28 - Sep 12th, 2021 at 2:45pm
Print Post  
My ears were burning - lol  Grin

Yes, I too am playing struggling with .25 Stevens, but in a #4 rolling block. I've made one case from .22 hornet that uses a .22 blank for the primer. It was a lot of work to make. I've also converted some .17WSM, again a lot of work. The brown .27 nail gun blanks are the easiest way to go. I fired a couple, one with a breech seated bullet into the ground outside my garage. It worked fine, but was a little hard to extract. But this is the easiest way to go. I dont know how the strength of the Favorite compares to the #4 roller. But the brown blank and breech seated bullet seemed quite mild.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #29 - Sep 12th, 2021 at 5:37pm
Print Post  
Roller is stronger than  '94 Favorite, IMHO.   1915 Favorite maybe equal.  Difference is the width of the link.  The link takes quite lot of stress, since the rimfires were rarely fitted up so that the breechblock bears against the shoulders in the frame.
  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #30 - Sep 12th, 2021 at 5:49pm
Print Post  
Well, chipmaker, seeing is believing.  That's the first hard evidence I've ever seen that any .25 Stevens rifle ever had a .250 groove.

When and for how long Stevens used a .250 groove is anybody's guess.  Yours is later than 1896, and before 1915.   

WHY Stevens made them with two different bores will undoubtedly remain a mystery.

But it does clear up the mystery of why Barnes listed the bullet diameter as .251, which I've considered an error until now.
  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
chipmaker
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 346
Location: san diego
Joined: Sep 24th, 2007
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #31 - Sep 12th, 2021 at 7:53pm
Print Post  
The smokeless load for the 25 Stevens RF is listed as giving a velocity of 1180 fps with a 65 grain lead bullet.
Both BP and Dellet, who post on these forums, reported firing two black powder 25 RF rounds and observed a velocity of 1112 fps. Dellet also reported that Canuck 25 RF cartridges, gave a velocity of 1124 fps, when fired from a 22" barreled Favorite.
I thought that, if a nail gun cartridge and 50 grain bullet, gave a velocity at or below 1100 fps, that it would be safe to fire in the Favorite, until a friend mentioned that the nail gun cartridges might have a different pressure curve, from black powder or the smokeless powder used in the Canuck cartridges, that could still damage the Favorite, even though it produced the same muzzle velocity.
Different powders do burn differently and can create significantly different pressures, while producing the same velocity, so it seems as if the preceding caution might have merit.
Does anyone know of any reports of high pressure signs, when using the green or brown nail gun cartridges, in firearms? 
Otto 
« Last Edit: Sep 12th, 2021 at 8:05pm by chipmaker »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ndnchf
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1066
Joined: Mar 6th, 2014
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #32 - Sep 12th, 2021 at 8:03pm
Print Post  
FWIW, in the last 2 days in my #4 rolling block I've fired:

.27 brown nail gun blank and breech seated 52gr bullet. It fired fine, but was  little hard to extract. But this is commonly reported with these blanks. No other signs of pressure. The report was quite mild.

A case made from .22 Hornet loaded with a green .22 cal nail gun blank and 52gr bullet. It shot fine, extracted easily and had a mild report.

Both of these were just fired into the ground outside my garage to test functionality.

Steve
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
skwerl 44
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 41
Location: Okanagan Valley B.C.
Joined: Jul 21st, 2021
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #33 - Nov 18th, 2021 at 10:27pm
Print Post  
Hey Guys & Gals

New to the Forum , tho not new to Stevens .

The Favorites in .25 Stevens & .32 rf have 24 '' barrels
the Favs. in .22lr have 22 '' barrels .

I've not seen any Favorites with barrel numbers
matching the receiver numbers only the Model 44 & 44 1/2 .

Also the 1894 Models that I have only have Favorite
on the top of the receiver and some don't .

I do appreciate exchanging info. with you Stevens Guru's
as the more I learn the more that I know that I don't know.

prost , skoal & cheers .. skwerl
  

Jacta Alea Est
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
slumlord44
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2850
Location: Lebanon, Illinois 62254
Joined: Dec 21st, 2007
Re: Lucky Favorite
Reply #34 - Nov 19th, 2021 at 9:49pm
Print Post  
I ran a few of the lightest .27 nail gun loads through a Walnut Hill with no issues other than extraction issues. Had to us a cleaning rod on some. Decent accuracy. Didn't try a Favorite because I wasn't totally sure of the pressure and the action and I had a 44 to use.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 
Send TopicPrint