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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Remington #7 Rolling Block from castings, update (Read 23150 times)
bobw
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Remington #7 Rolling Block from castings, update
Jul 21st, 2021 at 9:00pm
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I've always found the #7 rolling block an interesting gun with its unique profile and unusual rear sight mounting.  Since not many were produced they tend to be on the pricy side when in good condition as an original gun.  So when I was told that Rodney Storie had casting available I contacted him and soon had one on the way.  I would also say he is a good guy to do business with, he help me out of an issue I had with the lower tang, which I will discuss when I get to that portion of the build.

I try to take lots of pictures while working through each process but while setting up the pictures for this thread I found I was sorely lacking in some process's and apologize for that now.  On the other hand some operation are just plain boring so no need to show them anyway! Cheesy

The frame comes machined on each side from Rodney.  
I did not take pictures but the frame interior was machined mostly in a couple different operations, simply clamped in a vice, with an extended length end mill, of course keeping it centers in the casting.

The first photo is of the castings as I received it from Rodney.  I did not use the rotary extractor, choosing to go with the sliding style.  Rodney does supply the information to make a coil style main spring assembly but I decided to make my own in the original style, the spring in the kit was not used.  I also did not use the stirrup because I made my own.

The second photos is a drawing that came with the castings.  These are dead on and worked very well with his casting...except for the lower tang which I messed up on.  Those of you lucky people with DRO will do this easily.  Those of us without DRO get to count....a lot!

Third photo shows the fixture plate I made to do many operation on.  I set it up so that the front and top of the casting hung out past the edge of the plate.  It made everything repeatable and square to the barrel threaded bore.

4. Shop made gauge pin being used, while boring the minor thread diameter, being sure the bore is the proper size for threading.

5. The threads are now cut.  I have not gone to the extent of Greg(gt) in threading the barrel yet, although his methods is much more accurate being done on a lathe.  The tap did cut into the front counter bore, this showed up when I bored this to the proper diameter, but this has not caused any issues.
« Last Edit: Jun 9th, 2022 at 5:53pm by bobw »  

Robert Warren
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bobw
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Re: Building a Remington #7 Rolling Block from casting
Reply #1 - Jul 21st, 2021 at 9:26pm
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Photo 6.  While in the fixture I squared up the frame front to the threaded bore. This was cut just down to the start of the curved portion on the front profile of the frame.  The curved portion will be finished once the lower tang is installed.  There is a fairly tall casting sprue on top the frame that I cut down close to the top of the frame, this gave me an index point, that was aligned with the threaded bore, in case I needed it in the future.

7.  A false barrel breech plug.  I make this for several reasons.  It protects the threads when installed but also supports the threaded bore when clamping the frame in a vice.  It is also use to hold the frame while filing, polishing and many other operations.

8. Plug installed and the frame on the fixture plate.

9. Drilling and tapping all the frame holes.  I also cut the screw head counter bore while positioned over each hole.
  

Robert Warren
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ScrapMetal
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Re: Building a Remington #7 Rolling Block from casting
Reply #2 - Jul 22nd, 2021 at 4:32am
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Cool project Bob.  I'll be looking forward to seeing it come together.

Thanks for posting.

-Ron
  
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bobw
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Re: Building a Remington #7 Rolling Block from casting
Reply #3 - Jul 22nd, 2021 at 9:24am
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Couple things I did not mention before.

The casting kit also comes with the sear/trigger/breech block spring.  Rodney makes this spring for the kit because it is unusual and he has a jig he uses.  He had a short thread here on making this spring last year.

After I cut the breech threads, counter bore and machined the front face of the frame I did chamfer the front of the bore slightly.
  

Robert Warren
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bobw
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Re: Building a Remington #7 Rolling Block from casting
Reply #4 - Jul 22nd, 2021 at 10:40am
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Next on the list was the trigger guard/lower tang.  This is where I messed up and had to be rescued by Rodney! Grin  I won't get into much detail of what I did wrong but will just go for the way that worked, at least for me!   
On the first guard I clamped it using the two as cast sides that slide into the frame, then machine the inside for the trigger and sear and   using a fixture then machined the outside.  By doing it this way I ended up with a slightly tipped trigger guard when installed in the frame.  The correct way to machine this is to grab the trigger guard in the vice, which I did on the second guard, leaving the portion that sets into the main frame above the vice.  This way you can machine the inside to fit the trigger and sear and the outside to fit the frame and the bonus is the trigger guard will be straight in the frame. The above was my first mistake and I probably could have lived with it... but not the second mistake.

Looking at the drawing of the hole pattern it looked like the front frame hole was measured from the bottom of the inside cut.  Not being a proffesional machinist I'm allow dumb mistakes!  The problem was the relationship between the bottom of the cut, the hole and the very bottom of the casting that forms the outside profile got messed up.  You will see that in the photo below.  So the best way to get the holes drilled in the proper place in the guard is to install the guard in the frame getting it exactly where you want it.  Center punching through the frame holes, then things will be properly located. I like to use those self centering punches that come in a set of different sizes. 

After the lower tang was installed and tight, both the upper and lower tangs need to be straightened.  Warming them until red they straightened very easily.

Photo 10. This shows a fixture I used to machine the outside of the first guard and drill the holes.  It worked really well for drilling the screw and pin holes.  The guard was supported much better than what is shown in this and the next picture.

11. Don't machine the guard this way!

12. Screw holes all line up nice with the frame holes.

13. This was the results of not making sure everything was going to work before drilling holes!  Fortunately Rodney had another guard available.  Oh well, it looks nice sitting in the scrap pile. Smiley
  

Robert Warren
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bobw
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Re: Building a Remington #7 Rolling Block from casting
Reply #5 - Jul 22nd, 2021 at 11:33am
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Knowing I was going to build this #7 I had purchased a #2 to use as a example since they are basically the same internals just a different frame shape.  Figured I'd just sell the #2 when I was done with it.

First photo.  This showed the raw breech block casting along side the #2 block.  As you can see the #2 has a raised lip around the pin that needed to be cut into the cast block.

Second. Hammer from the #2 and the raw casting.  It gets the same lip.

Third. After boring and reaming the block and hammer pin holes I mounted each on an arbor and chucked them in the lathe.  I trimmed them to the proper width for the frame, of course keeping things like the hammer centered.  Then narrowed the the sides leaving the lip standing proud.  While in the lathe I turned the outside portion of the hammer that falls under the breech block when fired, this left the center to be dealt with later, and also turned the hammer clear out to the spur so everything fell in line on center.

Last. This is the fixture plate with everything mounted on it.  I see the hammer on this side was not finished clear to the tip.  The main thing is that the portion that hit the firing pin is centered.  
This plate was used in the mill on a rotary table to finish every other radius on both the hammer and the block.  The part was set on one of the studs, clamped and machined.

In this last photo, with everything on the plate, you can see the spring that Rodney made.  It is applying pressure to the bottom of the breech block.  The block has a radius cut the spring sets in.  The spring creates drag when the block is open, so it doesn't just flop around, and it hold the block closed against the barrel so the hammer can pass under the block locking it in position when the gun is fired.  The picture shows the hammer under the block, this is one of the critical adjustment for proper head spacing and must be adjusted in the gun.
  

Robert Warren
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bobw
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Re: Building a Remington #7 Rolling Block from casting
Reply #6 - Jul 22nd, 2021 at 11:47am
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The first and second photos are the breach block mostly finished.  In the second you can see the end of the radial cut the spring sets in.  Sorry, in all my photos i do not have picture of the that radial cut.  It is important to note that it must be correct for the block to close and stay closed.

Third. Another view of the assembly and spring.

Fourth and fifth.  Couple shots of the mostly finished hammer.
  

Robert Warren
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bobw
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Re: Building a Remington #7 Rolling Block from casting
Reply #7 - Jul 22nd, 2021 at 11:50am
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This is just three more shots on the Breech block, hammers and pins installed.

This also appears to be the first, messed up, lower tang.
  

Robert Warren
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JLouis
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Re: Building a Remington #7 Rolling Block from casting
Reply #8 - Jul 22nd, 2021 at 11:58am
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This would make for a good article for you to send in and to have published in the ASSRA Journal. As Steve Durren used to do and in multiple parts from the start to the finished rifle itself. I still have all of his articles that I still use for reference and to me they are all priceless and also easy to find and to use for my own future use.
« Last Edit: Jul 22nd, 2021 at 12:06pm by JLouis »  

" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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marlinguy
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Re: Building a Remington #7 Rolling Block from casting
Reply #9 - Jul 22nd, 2021 at 11:59am
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Fantastic work Bob! 
I'll never do this as I don't have the skills or the equipment. But I sure enjoy seeing how you did it all!
  

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ballardhepburnmich
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Re: Building a Remington #7 Rolling Block from casting
Reply #10 - Jul 23rd, 2021 at 12:28am
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Please send your dialog and pictures to John Merz to put in the journal. 
Thank you, Lee Gibbs pres.ASSRA
  
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bobw
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Re: Building a Remington #7 Rolling Block from casting
Reply #11 - Jul 23rd, 2021 at 11:46am
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Another thing I did not mention before about the fixture plate.  When the guns frame was mounted and the holes bored for the screw holes, the lower tang holes were drilled through into the plate and threaded later.  This is pretty handy, as you can see in the photo of the assembly on the plate.  While you can't do final fitting this way, it sure helps to get close and the final can be done on the gun.  It's much easier to take this apart than the gun.
  

Robert Warren
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bobw
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Re: Building a Remington #7 Rolling Block from casting
Reply #12 - Jul 23rd, 2021 at 2:11pm
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As I said in the opening of this thread, I did not use the rotary extractor that came with the casting kit.  Greg (gt) kind of talked me into using the sliding style that lays along side the barrel.  This style is much more user friendly in a gun chambered in 22 RF, like this gun is.  The problem was that I had never paid much attention to them before!  So the big question was how do I make one and fit it to the gun?  Had a bit of help from Greg and a friend here in town.  I thank both for the help.

The first photo is of a model 1901 rolling block pistol the friend here in town owns.  He would not allow it to be disassembled but at least I could get an idea how the extractor set in the gun and worked.

The second photo is of a drawing Greg did for me of an extractor he had.  The dimensions are different than what I used but it really help to figure out what I needed to do.

This third photo shows the cut required on the breech block to make the extractor work.  It's the short radial cut just outside the pin hole.  This cut was done on the fixture plate and on the rotary table.  Obviously the breech block will push the round into the chamber but on extraction the front of this slot catches the leg of the extractor pulling the spent shell from the chamber.  The length of the slot determines when the shell starts extracting.  The length of the extractor leg determines how far out the extractor pulls the shell. It needs to be balanced so the breech block can be fully opened without pulling the extractor out to far.  This may sounds much harder to do than it really is!
  

Robert Warren
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Re: Building a Remington #7 Rolling Block from casting
Reply #13 - Jul 23rd, 2021 at 6:20pm
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Bob,
This is very special to me as a Rolling block owner, and how they and others become well made...I totally concur with those suggesting publishing your work. It will serve many who would otherwise just see or buy one.
  

Pro Deo et Pro Patria
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bobw
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Re: Building a Remington #7 Rolling Block from casting
Reply #14 - Jul 23rd, 2021 at 6:53pm
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Continuing with the extractor and the actual machining of it.

First photo.  As can be seen, it is machined from bar stock, held in the vice and hanging out far enough to machine all the parts features and length.  In this photo, looking at the end of the part, the thicker portion to the left will become the shell extractor and the thin part on the right will become the leg that the breech block acts against to open the extractor.

Second photo. the part is now flipped over.  The extractor is now on the right and the leg to the left.  The 15 degree angle on the back of the extractor is visible here.  Most of the machining is complete, at this point, out on the working end.  The only thing left is to finish the leg that slides in the barrel channel.  As that get shaped all the excess supporting metal will be removed.  It will be cut from the outside toward the vice letting the material support the part as the counting proceeds.

Third. This shows the balance of the metal has now been removed and the shape of the extractor is clearly visible.  Everything at this point has been left long to allow for fitting to the barrel. this part is not very big, the long leg that runs against the barrel is 3/16 wide. 

4. The nearly finished extractor.  Just cleanup and fitting to the barrel is left.  It also need the slot cut, that the screw slides in, that stops the extractor from falling out of the barrel when the breech block is open.  This screw is the one that sits just in front of the breech end of the barrel on the left side.

5.  This was a test fit I did using the false barrel shank that was made earlier.  I wanted to make sure I understood what needed to be done before cutting into the actual barrel and that plug work very well.

Next I will show and talk about the barrel but will come back to the extractor after that.
  

Robert Warren
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