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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What are the Pressure Limits of the 44 1/2 (Read 6369 times)
S99VG
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What are the Pressure Limits of the 44 1/2
Jul 12th, 2021 at 12:51pm
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I want to start this by cleary stating that I am in no way considering maxing out the 44 1/2 by making one into a elephant gun.  On the ohter hand, I am curious about the pressure limits of this action.  I have seen a CPA up for auction chambered in .348 and I do recognize this as a modern built replica of the original with dimensional and steel differences.  Having said that, and wanting nothing more than a better understanding of these rifles, what would be considered the upper end of safe use for an original 44 1/2 in restored condition? (with mine having been restored by CPA prior to my ownership).
  
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Schuetzendave
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Re: What are the Pressure Limits of the 44 1/2
Reply #1 - Jul 12th, 2021 at 3:13pm
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The original 44 1/2 are a 1/4" thinner and are not as strong as the modern CPA replica which makes the actions much thicker and with better steel.
The original Stevens 44 1/2 barrel shank is rather small, so the largest base diameter has always been held to be the .30-30/.38-55 class.
« Last Edit: Jul 12th, 2021 at 3:22pm by Schuetzendave »  
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JLouis
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Re: What are the Pressure Limits of the 44 1/2
Reply #2 - Jul 12th, 2021 at 6:10pm
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S99VG I would call Gail at CPA and ask her. She has a tremendous amount of knowledge in regards to the original  Steven's 441/2's as well as her own newly made CPA's. I do believe the strength based on Neidner and others various chambering experiments make more stringer than some might actually think. But why continue to guess when we can probably get it right from Gail herself.
  

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S99VG
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Re: What are the Pressure Limits of the 44 1/2
Reply #3 - Jul 12th, 2021 at 6:19pm
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Thank guys!
  
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Re: What are the Pressure Limits of the 44 1/2
Reply #4 - Jul 12th, 2021 at 6:21pm
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What cartridges/calibers are you considering?
  
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oneatatime
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Re: What are the Pressure Limits of the 44 1/2
Reply #5 - Jul 12th, 2021 at 6:54pm
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I would think that, even though back in the day some seriously overpressured loads were shot in 44 1/2 actions,  no one today is going to put a number on an action made over 100 years ago and has seen God only knows what kinds of abuse and modifications it might have suffered in that 100 years. Not to mention, of course, what kind of pot metal barrel might have ended up on it.
  
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Re: What are the Pressure Limits of the 44 1/2
Reply #6 - Jul 12th, 2021 at 7:13pm
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Not sure why you might be feeling that way? When these rifles were being made they were not being made out of inferior and unknown steels or with unknown strengths. A rifle is either in good operating condition or not and the date of manufacturing has nothing at all to do with a 441/2. Steven's was a major firearms manufacturing company and had full lability over the products that they made and sold if not abused.
  

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JLouis
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Re: What are the Pressure Limits of the 44 1/2
Reply #7 - Jul 12th, 2021 at 7:31pm
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Brent Boyd of Single Shot Fame had a 270 Hunting rifle made by CPA for his Son and I now forget what he also had made for himself in the write up. I am pretty sure there those here who would say it doesn't have that type of strength. But the question really is how much less strength does an original 441/2 actually have and I am talking about just having to guess or just having personal opinions being thrown at it. Who might actually know probably Gail at CPA herself who added the extra strength to her own actions. It was probably based of off and then re-engineered around an original 441/2.
  

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Re: What are the Pressure Limits of the 44 1/2
Reply #8 - Jul 12th, 2021 at 7:37pm
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Schuetzendave, you made me curious so I just compared my CPA and my 44 1/2. The difference in total thickness is about .125 and the shank difference is about .053. I think that works out to about 12% more metal around the shank of the CPA. However, if the 44 1/2 is limited to a 30-30 sized cartridge base but the CPA is limited to a 45-70 sized cartridge base there is actually about .030 less metal in the shank itself around the cartridge base in the CPA so if you take that away from the extra thickness of the action then the effective difference in action thickness is... well you figure it out.
  
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oneatatime
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Re: What are the Pressure Limits of the 44 1/2
Reply #9 - Jul 12th, 2021 at 7:39pm
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Of course, John. So we can probably say that the 44 1/2 action in good condition should be safe for any cartridge for which the factory originally chambered it. Isn't that what you said? Anyone have a list? I think the extra thickness of the CPA action was designed to accommodate the larger shank of a barrel that could be used with a base size cartridge of the 45-70 range.
« Last Edit: Jul 12th, 2021 at 7:46pm by oneatatime »  
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Re: What are the Pressure Limits of the 44 1/2
Reply #10 - Jul 12th, 2021 at 7:52pm
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I did not say that I am only talking about the pre- engineered safe strength that everyone keeps on guessing about. Once that is a known then one would know what smokeless cartridges and or loads could be safely used either new and or old.
  

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Re: What are the Pressure Limits of the 44 1/2
Reply #11 - Jul 12th, 2021 at 8:07pm
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The tenon on a CPA is .940 what is the size of the tenon on an original 441/2. The action width on a CPA is 1.230 what is the width on an original 441/2. Did Steven's like the Winchester 1885's have two tenon sizes or just the one. These I do not have any knowledge of so I am just abit on the more curious side of not knowing what these might be right now.
  

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Re: What are the Pressure Limits of the 44 1/2
Reply #12 - Jul 12th, 2021 at 9:09pm
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Based on my two actions: action widths 1.13 vs 1.24; shanks .875 vs .928.
  
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Re: What are the Pressure Limits of the 44 1/2
Reply #13 - Jul 12th, 2021 at 11:43pm
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I don't know about breech thrust limits, but certainly a million original 44 1/2s stood up to a million rounds of hair-curling pressures in 22 Lovells and Donaldsons and the like, with little trouble beyond burning the points off of firing pins from all the blown out primers.
  
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Re: What are the Pressure Limits of the 44 1/2
Reply #14 - Jul 13th, 2021 at 12:00am
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No doubts about that! Mine was a Donaldson (and the barrel was originally a Lovell), and it shoots very well that way but I was more interested in accuracy than velocity.
  
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