Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Barrel fitting (Read 7018 times)
JLouis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 10625
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Barrel fitting
Reply #15 - Jul 9th, 2021 at 1:09am
Print Post  
If doing your own barrel blank installation the fit of the threads being cut on a lathe also come into to play. And even more importantly is the face of the action also has to be trued as well as the action threads themselves. Then a hand tight barrel fit will also be true if the barrels shoulder has also been trued and jf so a hand tight fit of the barrel for our use would also be just fine. If not wanting interchangeable barrels to be used no need for a barrel retaining screw. A little green LocTite on the threads is all you need.
  

" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JLouis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 10625
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Barrel fitting
Reply #16 - Jul 9th, 2021 at 1:19am
Print Post  
Basically if you do some research. Tuing up the face of a single shot action and also truing up threads. is basically the same of what they do to Remington 700 action for improved accuracy before installing and chambering a new barrel to attach to it.
  

" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
S99VG
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 514
Location: CA
Joined: Feb 1st, 2020
Re: Barrel fitting
Reply #17 - Jul 9th, 2021 at 10:29am
Print Post  
ssdave wrote on Jul 9th, 2021 at 12:47am:
Winchester used an interrupted thread, pin locked sleeve system.  Not very robust, very subject to wear and becoming loose, so much so that they built tightening mechanisms into the sleeve to account for wear.  

It was an inconsistent and fragile system, more suited for convenience than accuracy.


What was the source of the weakness?  Was it something like the thread pitch Winchester used or the diameter of the barrel shank?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 18044
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Barrel fitting
Reply #18 - Jul 9th, 2021 at 10:54am
Print Post  
I agree with the thinking that too tight isn't a good thing....usually. But I can say from experience that a pretty tightly fitted barrel can still shoot extremely well.
The first Ballard I had rebarreled has a .45-70 GM barrel, and was fitted by my late friend. He fitted and chambered it, and then I sent the action off for color case. When it came back I called my friend to ask if I could come over and use his barrel vise, as I had none back then. He said to come right over, as he was headed to Australia the next day, and would be gone two months.
So I rushed over, and we applied some light oil to the threads, and spun the barrel up tight by hand. He looked at where it stopped and told me it was going to be pretty tight, and might want to give it just a little more clearance. But since were were in a hurry we decided to try it, and adjust it after he got back. So we cranked it down, and it was pretty darn tight getting the alignment marks centered.
I shot it a lot while he was gone, and it shot so well we never did break it down to relieve the tension. It's still doing great 30 years later, and I don't plan on messing with it.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
John Taylor
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1851
Location: Lewiston, ID
Joined: Oct 23rd, 2006
Re: Barrel fitting
Reply #19 - Jul 9th, 2021 at 1:03pm
Print Post  
I have seen more than a few come in with loose barrels so I probably tighten a little more than necessary. About 90 % of my work is barrels. The " set screw " on Stevens works OK for a takedown rifle where the barrel should be hand tight when lined up but I have had quite a few come in with a barrel that can be turned in past the mark very easy.
  

John Taylor   Machinist/gunsmith
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
JLouis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 10625
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Barrel fitting
Reply #20 - Jul 9th, 2021 at 2:36pm
Print Post  
Steven Durren had a very nice gunsmithing article in a past ASSRA Journal. He likes to leave .002 on the shoulder for wrench tightening. I now do the same for those barrel installations that don't us a barrel retaining screw and I also use a bit of Blue LocTite. I have done very few not having the barrel retaining screws and most for CPA's. So for those few without the retaining screw I referred to Steve's article and used the same method as he describes with a bit more detail added.
  

" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 18044
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Barrel fitting
Reply #21 - Jul 9th, 2021 at 4:04pm
Print Post  
JLouis wrote on Jul 9th, 2021 at 2:36pm:
Steven Durren had a very nice gunsmithing article in a past ASSRA Journal. He likes to leave .002 on the shoulder for wrench tightening. I now do the same for those barrel installations that don't us a barrel retaining screw and I also use a bit of Blue LocTite. I have done very few not having the barrel retaining screws and most for CPA's. So for those few without the retaining screw I referred to Steve's article and used the same method as he describes with a bit more detail added.   


I got a Ballard barrel from a friend of yours and mine, and when I screwed it on I expected it to not fit, or time correctly. But surprisingly it did both, but not extremely tight. I could grab it with both hands and almost turn it enough to index it properly. 
So I did the blue Loctite treatment on the threads also, and then just gave it a slight bump in my barrel vise to finish it. It's holding up fine, and not given any signs of loosening, or shooting poorly. A .40-65W. chambered 1/2 octagon Douglas barrel.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JLouis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 10625
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Barrel fitting
Reply #22 - Jul 9th, 2021 at 4:13pm
Print Post  
Vall thank you for also sharing that information and the luck involved to actually have it fit.
  

" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
S99VG
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 514
Location: CA
Joined: Feb 1st, 2020
Re: Barrel fitting
Reply #23 - Jul 9th, 2021 at 4:41pm
Print Post  
So I have to ask, in comparison to a barrel system like Stevens used, how tight is hand + on a 1885 action?  Just how tight does the Stevens system lock a barrel down and how does that compare to the tightness of what you guys are talking about for the Low/High Wall?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 18044
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Barrel fitting
Reply #24 - Jul 9th, 2021 at 5:18pm
Print Post  
S99VG wrote on Jul 9th, 2021 at 4:41pm:
So I have to ask, in comparison to a barrel system like Stevens used, how tight is hand + on a 1885 action?  Just how tight does the Stevens system lock a barrel down and how does that compare to the tightness of what you guys are talking about for the Low/High Wall?


Stevens rifles I've had screwed on very easily, and stopped pretty much just where they needed to be. Then just tighten the setscrew.
But I have had people tell me there's went too far, and had to unscrew them a bit to align the setscrew indent.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JLouis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 10625
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Barrel fitting
Reply #25 - Jul 9th, 2021 at 5:36pm
Print Post  
S99VG are you referring to the HiWall take down system or possibly not. The difference between both of Winchester's means of barrel attachment are in now way being the same.
  

" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
S99VG
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 514
Location: CA
Joined: Feb 1st, 2020
Re: Barrel fitting
Reply #26 - Jul 9th, 2021 at 5:45pm
Print Post  
JLouis wrote on Jul 9th, 2021 at 5:36pm:
S99VG are you referring to the HiWall take down system or possibly not. The difference between both of Winchester's means of barrel attachment are in now way being the same.


I’m comparing the Stevens system with the hand tight proposals for the high wall that have been talked about.  Effectively making a solid frame 1885 into an ersatz take down.  I’m not comparing the Stevens system to the Winchester take down system as the latter seems like it leaves a lot to be desired.  Thanks 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
calledflyer
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 3964
Joined: Mar 9th, 2015
Re: Barrel fitting
Reply #27 - Jul 9th, 2021 at 6:34pm
Print Post  
Taking any system apart and back together many times will result in wear and poorer fit. Nuts and bolts, faucet washers, and, yes, rifle barrels. The idea is fine for those who needed a way to transport a rifle in a shorter manner or for the occasional change of caliber. But best if assembled and left along as much as can be. I had a takedown model 99 Savage that had never been dismounted and it shot lights out- seen others on an off many times, that rattled while leaning in the corner. Doubt that they shot like mine.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 18044
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Barrel fitting
Reply #28 - Jul 10th, 2021 at 10:50am
Print Post  
The Ballard rifles I own that are set up like Stevens system are two Schoyen, a Peterson, and a Stevens-Pope. All have the setscrew to retain them, but still wont just spin off if I remove the setscrew and try it by hand. They don't need a barrel vise, but it takes a gorilla's grip to grasp them tight enough to break them loose. Once loose they spin off freely, so they're not an interference fit. I can clamp the barrel in my wood vise, or vise with urethane jaw pads, and easily break them loose. But just a bit too snug to do by hand.
But I've only taken the barrels off once or twice in many years, as I don't think taking them down is a good practice.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: Barrel fitting
Reply #29 - Jul 10th, 2021 at 3:23pm
Print Post  
The deficiency in all but the original Stevens 44 takedown arrangement is that the barrel tenons are too short.  The Stevens system had a tenon long enough to control pitch and yaw without being wrenched up squeaky tight.  Worst example is the Remington #4 rolling block.  That said, I like to set my 44 builds up to need a wrench to get the last 10-12 degrees of rotation.  Belt and suspenders.
  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 
Send TopicPrint