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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) How to finish CPA sanded stock? UPDATE (Read 4675 times)
bohemianway
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How to finish CPA sanded stock? UPDATE
Jun 3rd, 2021 at 4:03pm
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Rifle arrived and plan needs to change. It needs a considerable amount of fitting/finishing work so I am wondering if using true oil  for a few applications would protect from staining from handling while figuring out what I need to trim. My question is that once a few layers are applied and time passes where I decide to bring the stock closer to a flush fit will re-sanding and applying true oil leave an even finish that the rework won't show to bad?

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Charles
  
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burntwater
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Re: How to finish CPA sanded stock? UPDATE
Reply #1 - Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:20pm
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Any penetrating oil finish will work but there are considerations. Depth of protection will depend on species of wood and density. So if you remove .250” then all bets are off. Most oil finishes penetrate at most in domestic low resin hardwoods about 1/16” . High resin species and highly figured domestics woods tend to absorb less. I would suggest a 40-60 or 50-50 mix or tung oil and real turps heated to around 120° or ballpark close. Tung oil and oils like linseed response well to moderate heat and viscosity reduction allowing better penetration. Tru-Oil and similar products contain quite a bit of driers or metallic salts which provides the user with a great looking and handling topical finish but reduced penetration

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JLouis
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Re: How to finish CPA sanded stock? UPDATE
Reply #2 - Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:31pm
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I would and I have used what will be used for the final  finish to also be accomplished. It will help to protect it to a degree and it will also help to fill in the pores as you continue to move forward and the color of the wood will still remain the same.
  

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bohemianway
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Re: How to finish CPA sanded stock? UPDATE
Reply #3 - Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:45pm
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at most I will need to remove .030" where the wood is proud of one side of the upper tang and the same for one side of scallop to the receiver. And just want to see if doing that work after a few initial coats can be easily matched. I am not staining the wood and it is American Walnut that needs some filler for small porosities.
  
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bobw
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Re: How to finish CPA sanded stock? UPDATE
Reply #4 - Jun 3rd, 2021 at 7:45pm
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If its something you want to remove later, in order to finish, I think I would go with shellac or lacquer.  They shouldn’t penetrate deeply and are very easy to remove but would protect the wood from oils while handling the gun.
Bob
  

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burntwater
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Re: How to finish CPA sanded stock? UPDATE
Reply #5 - Jun 3rd, 2021 at 8:13pm
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Matching surface finishes with oils is not a problem. You’re not staining so color match is basically irrelevant. Clear oils work essentially the same and only change tone with age and UV exposure.  Shellac’s are high build low penetrating fast drying barrier coats that really don’t do much for gunstock work other than tone and fast surface build. Using a shellac is strictly the ultimate topical coating with little to no penetration. Shellac is one of the ultimate base or barrier coats but this is not what you need.
  
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bobw
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Re: How to finish CPA sanded stock? UPDATE
Reply #6 - Jun 3rd, 2021 at 10:23pm
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Maybe I misunderstood what he was wanting....that wouldn’t be unusual!! Grin  I thought he wanted something to protect the wood until he decided what the final shaping and finish will be. Thought the shellac or lacquer would do that without penetrating and would be easy to remove for the final shaping and finish.  I would also use an oil finish in the end and would agree that as long as no stain was to be used the oil would be fine.  But by using one of these his options are open for stain or dye if he changes his mind.
Bob
  

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marlinguy
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Re: How to finish CPA sanded stock? UPDATE
Reply #7 - Jun 4th, 2021 at 10:02am
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I'd give it a coat of Minn Wax Wipe On Poly. It is very thin, and will soak into the wood quickly. Might even give it a few coats, as raw wood sucks up thin finishes. 
But I usually keep a box of nitrile gloves on the bench and wear them when working new wood. Easy to keep oils from my hands off the wood, and stuff off my hands too.
  

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bohemianway
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Re: How to finish CPA sanded stock? UPDATE
Reply #8 - Jun 4th, 2021 at 11:16am
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I will probably go the oil way since after I clean up the few areas I don't want to go over the whole stock again since 90% is finished sanded now.
  
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burntwater
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Re: How to finish CPA sanded stock? UPDATE
Reply #9 - Jun 4th, 2021 at 11:33am
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Polyurethane coatings offer the user a couple of features. (1) ease of application which Minwax was built on, (2) fast dry and short recoat windows, and (3) good tough abrasion resistant hide or surface. What Polyurthane does not offer is UV protection. No inhibitors or filters so poly gets brittle with age and sunlight/UV exposure and begins to yellow. Unlike oils poly needs to be stripped to restore or at best sanded back and recoated before it yellows.

Poly is really not a penetrating oil like Tung, linseed, etc. that never fully hardens. Penetrating or drying oils actually create a molecular bond with wood fibers while polyurethane is a surface coating. Some oils can darken with long exposure to sunlight especially linseed however Tung oil doesn’t appear to. Polyurethane is a polymer or plastic coating and like all plastics it will break down after a while and must be stripped. My comments are specific to single part common polys like Minwax etc however there are two part catalytic urethanes that offer much greater flexibility, gloss retention and UV inhibitors. However these are costly, difficult to apply in many respects, and contain very toxic isocyanates. Not a product for your average hobbyist. Oils like tung and some others are very very water resistant and can be rejuvenated for many lifetimes. Take your pick.
  
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bobw
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Re: How to finish CPA sanded stock? UPDATE
Reply #10 - Jun 4th, 2021 at 11:35am
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Well what ever you use it will make it easier to cleanup your friends drool! Cheesy
  

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Re: How to finish CPA sanded stock? UPDATE
Reply #11 - Jun 4th, 2021 at 12:44pm
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Wouldn’t a light final sanding over the entire stock take care of any oil staining from handling with your hands? Or just wear lightweight gloves when handling it, that’s what I would do.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: How to finish CPA sanded stock? UPDATE
Reply #12 - Jun 4th, 2021 at 3:25pm
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burntwater wrote on Jun 4th, 2021 at 11:33am:
Polyurethane coatings offer the user a couple of features. (1) ease of application which Minwax was built on, (2) fast dry and short recoat windows, and (3) good tough abrasion resistant hide or surface. What Polyurthane does not offer is UV protection. No inhibitors or filters so poly gets brittle with age and sunlight/UV exposure and begins to yellow. Unlike oils poly needs to be stripped to restore or at best sanded back and recoated before it yellows.

Poly is really not a penetrating oil like Tung, linseed, etc. that never fully hardens. Penetrating or drying oils actually create a molecular bond with wood fibers while polyurethane is a surface coating. Some oils can darken with long exposure to sunlight especially linseed however Tung oil doesn’t appear to. Polyurethane is a polymer or plastic coating and like all plastics it will break down after a while and must be stripped. My comments are specific to single part common polys like Minwax etc however there are two part catalytic urethanes that offer much greater flexibility, gloss retention and UV inhibitors. However these are costly, difficult to apply in many respects, and contain very toxic isocyanates. Not a product for your average hobbyist. Oils like tung and some others are very very water resistant and can be rejuvenated for many lifetimes. Take your pick.


I'd agree with all that for most polyurethanes. But Wipe On Poly is not like most polyurethanes. I've used it for decades, and it's as easy to repair or blend in as any oil finish, and gives a similar appearance to hand rubbed oil finishes.
I used to use Laurel Mountain's Permalyn Sealer (also a poly) when I read an ASSRA Journal where Steve Durren commented on how well it worked. But that stuff got so spendy I switched to WOP, and got the same results.
It does not yellow, and it does not break down, or flake off if done properly. On new wood I apply 12-16 coats, and wet sand each coat with WOP as I apply it, after the first 4 coats are applied.
This stock is 20 years old, and has seen a lot of sunlight at shoots, and the range. It looks as good today as when it was first done.

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JLouis
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Re: How to finish CPA sanded stock? UPDATE
Reply #13 - Jun 4th, 2021 at 4:02pm
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The depth of a hand rubbed oil finish is like no other and I can clearly tell if something other than has been used.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: How to finish CPA sanded stock? UPDATE
Reply #14 - Jun 6th, 2021 at 11:04am
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Maybe. But seeing Guild gunsmiths using poly finishes, and wet sanding between finishes, hand rubbing with rottenstone at the end, and buffing out; is impossible for most average gun owners to discern. 
The process is done so much like a oil finish that I sure can't tell the difference when it's done.
  

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