Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Reproduction butt plate issue (Read 2286 times)
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2107
Location: NW, Iowa
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Reproduction butt plate issue
May 28th, 2021 at 9:17pm
Print Post  
Curious if any of you have seen this before.  It's a reproduction of an original plate.  I ran into these as I dressed the edge of the plate while shaping the stock, they were not there on the original molded surface.  I have a couple thoughts as possible fixes but am open to suggestions.   
First though was to tape off the wood and fill with black epoxy but am afraid this might show as different colored spots if I don't mix the color properly.
Second idea is tape off the wood and fill with finish.  I have a gel finish I use for making my own colored glazes that's pretty thick.  Came up with this idea because when the edge of the plate is wet with alcohol the pits pretty much disappear.
Not excited about replacing it with another because of the time already in fitting it.  It also took over two month to get this one and a replacement may not be any better.
First photo is of the pits, second is a sorry attempt to show what it looks like with alcohol on it.
Bob
  

Robert Warren
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bluesman
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 193
Location: Paradise, California
Joined: May 29th, 2006
Re: Reproduction butt plate issue
Reply #1 - May 28th, 2021 at 11:27pm
Print Post  
Having made polyurethane castings for decades, I can tell you this is from air bubbles in the casting that were not compressed by casting in a pressure pot, or, casting under vacuum.Most of the repro butt plates on the market now are made with no concern for the physics of the process. l just ran into the same unfortunate problem with a repro Sharps plate for my '77...filled the pits with epoxy and it worked out OK, but not perfect.I may very well wrap the edge with a bit of tape and make a new RTV rubber mold and cast my own slightly oversized , sand out the edges and you'll never know but it takes care and a bit of equipment to do it right.Never would have gone out the door in my shop like that, we lived or died on the quality of our casting.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
S99VG
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 514
Location: CA
Joined: Feb 1st, 2020
Re: Reproduction butt plate issue
Reply #2 - May 29th, 2021 at 1:46am
Print Post  
bluesman wrote on May 28th, 2021 at 11:27pm:
Having made polyurethane castings for decades, I can tell you this is from air bubbles in the casting that were not compressed by casting in a pressure pot, or, casting under vacuum.Most of the repro butt plates on the market now are made with no concern for the physics of the process. l just ran into the same unfortunate problem with a repro Sharps plate for my '77...filled the pits with epoxy and it worked out OK, but not perfect.I may very well wrap the edge with a bit of tape and make a new RTV rubber mold and cast my own slightly oversized , sand out the edges and you'll never know but it takes care and a bit of equipment to do it right.Never would have gone out the door in my shop like that, we lived or died on the quality of our casting.


Not to change the topic here but I see you are from Paradise.  I grew up down the hill in Chico and now call Sacramento home.  I spent a lot of time in Paradise, especially the older parts and can't believe what you folks went through.  How are things  doing up there these days?   
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: Reproduction butt plate issue
Reply #3 - May 29th, 2021 at 1:54am
Print Post  
Yup, air bubbles.  Many, many years ago, before we even had integrated circuits on a chip, we made "op-amps" by assembling discrete components on a PC board and then "potting" them in  high-dielectric epoxy.  Pulling a vacuum on them to eliminate bubbles was part of the process.
  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
scharfe
Oldtimer
*****
Offline


A good plan today beats
a perfect plan tomorrow.

Posts: 613
Location: ny / pa line
Joined: Dec 18th, 2006
Re: Reproduction butt plate issue
Reply #4 - May 29th, 2021 at 8:00am
Print Post  
just a thought but skiers use a product called P-Tex to fill gouges. as I remember it's black you heat it and fix the void.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bluesman
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 193
Location: Paradise, California
Joined: May 29th, 2006
Re: Reproduction butt plate issue
Reply #5 - May 29th, 2021 at 9:58am
Print Post  
S99VG wrote on May 29th, 2021 at 1:46am:
bluesman wrote on May 28th, 2021 at 11:27pm:
Having made polyurethane castings for decades, I can tell you this is from air bubbles in the casting that were not compressed by casting in a pressure pot, or, casting under vacuum.Most of the repro butt plates on the market now are made with no concern for the physics of the process. l just ran into the same unfortunate problem with a repro Sharps plate for my '77...filled the pits with epoxy and it worked out OK, but not perfect.I may very well wrap the edge with a bit of tape and make a new RTV rubber mold and cast my own slightly oversized , sand out the edges and you'll never know but it takes care and a bit of equipment to do it right.Never would have gone out the door in my shop like that, we lived or died on the quality of our casting.


Not to change the topic here but I see you are from Paradise.  I grew up down the hill in Chico and now call Sacramento home.  I spent a lot of time in Paradise, especially the older parts and can't believe what you folks went through.  How are things  doing up there these days?  


We are seeing great changes, lots of building going on although costs for materials were a growing problem even before the virus hit.Not sure if we'll stay or go, trying to figure  that out.It's messy.
Lot of locals being run off their own land by the town's council.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 18051
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Reproduction butt plate issue
Reply #6 - May 29th, 2021 at 10:03am
Print Post  
I've used both clear epoxy as is, and also dyed with black epoxy dye mixed in to put a skim coat over the top and fill in those air pockets. As you mentioned there's no reason the next wont be the same, so easier to fix it than to replace it.
The black dye in Acraglass epoxy is very black and blends in well.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2107
Location: NW, Iowa
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Reproduction butt plate issue
Reply #7 - May 29th, 2021 at 10:09am
Print Post  
I was afraid the issue was air bubbles.  It is a bit frustrating!  I would just a soon pay more and get quality than have this issue show up after all the work to install it.  

Still not sure what I am going to do.  I know the epoxy will fill them but getting the correct color and texture can be an issue.  I may try a small spot today with the gel finish and see what it looks like.🙈

sharfe, you had me interested in the p-tex until I looked a the instructions.  They say it burns at 970 degrees and I’d be concerned about the wood being damaged. Thanks though.

Thanks, Bob
  

Robert Warren
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2107
Location: NW, Iowa
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Reproduction butt plate issue
Reply #8 - May 29th, 2021 at 10:19am
Print Post  
Vall, hadn’t thought about clear epoxy.  I would think that would be better than the finish.  When I’ve use acraglass I seem to get a grey color when finished but since you have good luck with it maybe I’m not adding enough black.  Do you use the regular or the gel acraglass?  I normally use the gel when I need it to stay in place.  Also, do have the name of the clear you are using?
  

Robert Warren
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
S99VG
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 514
Location: CA
Joined: Feb 1st, 2020
Re: Reproduction butt plate issue
Reply #9 - May 29th, 2021 at 1:41pm
Print Post  
bluesman wrote on May 29th, 2021 at 9:58am:
S99VG wrote on May 29th, 2021 at 1:46am:
bluesman wrote on May 28th, 2021 at 11:27pm:
Having made polyurethane castings for decades, I can tell you this is from air bubbles in the casting that were not compressed by casting in a pressure pot, or, casting under vacuum.Most of the repro butt plates on the market now are made with no concern for the physics of the process. l just ran into the same unfortunate problem with a repro Sharps plate for my '77...filled the pits with epoxy and it worked out OK, but not perfect.I may very well wrap the edge with a bit of tape and make a new RTV rubber mold and cast my own slightly oversized , sand out the edges and you'll never know but it takes care and a bit of equipment to do it right.Never would have gone out the door in my shop like that, we lived or died on the quality of our casting.


Not to change the topic here but I see you are from Paradise.  I grew up down the hill in Chico and now call Sacramento home.  I spent a lot of time in Paradise, especially the older parts and can't believe what you folks went through.  How are things  doing up there these days?  


We are seeing great changes, lots of building going on although costs for materials were a growing problem even before the virus hit.Not sure if we'll stay or go, trying to figure  that out.It's messy.
Lot of locals being run off their own land by the town's council.

 
Sorry for what you guys went and are going through.  Best of luck in your decisions on the future!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 18051
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Reproduction butt plate issue
Reply #10 - May 30th, 2021 at 9:47am
Print Post  
bobw wrote on May 29th, 2021 at 10:19am:
Vall, hadn’t thought about clear epoxy.  I would think that would be better than the finish.  When I’ve use acraglass I seem to get a grey color when finished but since you have good luck with it maybe I’m not adding enough black.  Do you use the regular or the gel acraglass?  I normally use the gel when I need it to stay in place.  Also, do have the name of the clear you are using?


I also use the gel for things like this. I've found their black dye to come out very black, and never had it come out gray. I also found it doesn't take much dye to turn the epoxy black. But I have also used dyes from Tap Plastics to color for various projects. The clear came from Tap, but don't recall the brand. It was 5 minute epoxy, and for small repairs I like the faster drying time.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send TopicPrint