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cuslog
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38-55 bore / groove diameters ?
Apr 5th, 2021 at 10:29am
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I see there's been a lot of variation in bore / groove diameters over the years. Is there one combination that's been more widely accepted ? Cast bullets, twist rate ?
TIA
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 38-55 bore / groove diameters ?
Reply #1 - Apr 5th, 2021 at 10:59am
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I think that generally a groove diameter of .380" is the most common among .38-55 rifles. But as you mentioned they vary a fair amount from that. But tools and techniques used in rifling a barrel will still change today, so you might order a barrel specified as .380" and get a .379" or a .381" It's just not that precise still.
Twist rates used to commonly be around 1:20" for makers in the late 1800's and early 1900's. And that was for the typical 255 gr. bullet. Custom barrel makers like Schoyen and Pope usually went with a 1:15" twist for heavier 300-320 gr. bullet use. I think many barrel makers today are also using this faster twist rate. I see Green Mountain, and Pedersoli both make barrels with a much faster 1:12" twist today!
  

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cuslog
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Re: 38-55 bore / groove diameters ?
Reply #2 - Apr 5th, 2021 at 12:10pm
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"I think that generally a groove diameter of .380" is the most common among .38-55 rifles."

So, bore ~.372 ?
  
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JLouis
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Re: 38-55 bore / groove diameters ?
Reply #3 - Apr 5th, 2021 at 12:15pm
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And a 15 twist is about right based on my own personal experiences. Most barrel makers will typically note at least their actual groove diameters or you can just simply call and ask for both.   
  

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marlinguy
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Re: 38-55 bore / groove diameters ?
Reply #4 - Apr 5th, 2021 at 2:02pm
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cuslog wrote on Apr 5th, 2021 at 12:10pm:
"I think that generally a groove diameter of .380" is the most common among .38-55 rifles."

So, bore ~.372 ?


There really isn't a "standard" bore size, as it depends on the barrel maker's preference of rifling depth, and style of rifling. There can be quite a variance between one maker's rifling, and another.
  

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craigster
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Re: 38-55 bore / groove diameters ?
Reply #5 - Apr 5th, 2021 at 4:07pm
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I built a RB in 38-55, Douglas .375 1/16 twist. When/if the next time comes around I will not use a 16.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 38-55 bore / groove diameters ?
Reply #6 - Apr 5th, 2021 at 8:11pm
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My Schoyen Ballard is a 1:15" twist, and shoots the Hudson Ideal bullet very well, even at 500-600 yds. If I recall the Hudson drops around 315 grs. for me. 
But I have older Ballard rifles with original Marlin 1:20" barrels that shoot lighter 255 gr. bullets very well at 500 yds. also. But if the winds pick up they do drift easier than the heavier 315 does.
I usually prefer a larger .40-.45 caliber rifle for long range shooting, but it's fun to play with the smaller .38-55 occasionally.
  

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SSShooter
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Re: 38-55 bore / groove diameters ?
Reply #7 - Apr 8th, 2021 at 8:23pm
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marlinguy wrote on Apr 5th, 2021 at 10:59am:
I think that generally a groove diameter of .380" is the most common among .38-55 rifles. 

I see Green Mountain, and Pedersoli both make barrels with a much faster 1:12" twist today!

0.380" may have been a standard 100 years ago, but 0.366"x 0.375" has been the standard from GM, Shilen, Bartlein, Krieger, etc., for as long as I've been shooting 38cal. 

And yes, 12" twist is the most successful for longer range shooting (BPCR & BPTR), though several folks are starting to shoot 10" twist barrels with their 38-50 & 38-70 rifles with the longer/heavier bullets. I'll be shooting a 343gr DEPP bullet in front of 50gr of 2F Swiss this weekend at our 200/300/600yd mid-range match. Not sure if that is enough umph for the bullet in a 12" twist barrel. May have to rechamber to 38-50 where I can easily get 65gr of powder behind it.
« Last Edit: Apr 8th, 2021 at 8:30pm by SSShooter »  

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oneatatime
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Re: 38-55 bore / groove diameters ?
Reply #8 - Apr 8th, 2021 at 8:55pm
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In my 13 twist 38-50 with a 360 grain bullet my BRCR load is 51 grains of 1 1/2 Swiss.
  
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SSShooter
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Re: 38-55 bore / groove diameters ?
Reply #9 - Apr 8th, 2021 at 9:37pm
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Was shooting 54gr of 2F Swiss in my 38-50 with the 360gr bullet.
  

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rgchristensen
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Re: 38-55 bore / groove diameters ?
Reply #10 - Apr 9th, 2021 at 2:48pm
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I'm currently struggling with a 19th century schuetzen rifle in 38-55 with a groove diameter a bit over .380.    I am going to cut a bullet that will just seat in a fired case and try with BP.   Occurs to me that it may also work with a little duplex of smokeless in there.

Does anyone have any experience that might help me out here?  Modifying the rifle is out of the question, of course.

CHRIS
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 38-55 bore / groove diameters ?
Reply #11 - Apr 9th, 2021 at 8:54pm
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rgchristensen wrote on Apr 9th, 2021 at 2:48pm:
I'm currently struggling with a 19th century schuetzen rifle in 38-55 with a groove diameter a bit over .380.    I am going to cut a bullet that will just seat in a fired case and try with BP.   Occurs to me that it may also work with a little duplex of smokeless in there.

Does anyone have any experience that might help me out here?  Modifying the rifle is out of the question, of course.

CHRIS


Have a similar issue with my Hepburn Match B schuetzen rifle in .32-40 chamber. The groove is .327" and it wont chamber fixed ammo. So I had Jerry Cleave build a breech seater for it, and just shoot it as a breech seater.
  

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RJ-35-40
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Re: 38-55 bore / groove diameters ?
Reply #12 - May 18th, 2021 at 2:17pm
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This is a pic of the 38-55 "DOUBLAS" XX barrel that came with my CPA 44 1/2 in 2002.
It is a 14 Twist , .3761

Notice the spelling, DOUBLAS.. !
I think of it as my 1943 Copper Penny that escaped the Mint..!

The other barrel is a Badger chambered in 35-40 Maynard 12 Twist. 


cuslog wrote on Apr 5th, 2021 at 10:29am:
I see there's been a lot of variation in bore / groove diameters over the years. Is there one combination that's been more widely accepted ? Cast bullets, twist rate ?
TIA

« Last Edit: May 18th, 2021 at 2:25pm by RJ-35-40 »  
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rkba2nd
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Re: 38-55 bore / groove diameters ?
Reply #13 - May 18th, 2021 at 11:30pm
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Any cut rifled barrel maker worth his salt should be able to make whatever you desire, or are willing to pay for. Time is Money, and for the barrel maker to deep hole drill to a specific size, and the necessary cutter/s for a specific groove size takes time, as does hand lapping etc. The old saying, You get what you pay for, applies here. My guess is that some are so busy and behind on orders, they just can't or won't take the time for specialty work. Most probably decide on a standard(for them) bore and groove diameter and don't have the time or inclination to vary from that.
  

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cuslog
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Re: 38-55 bore / groove diameters ?
Reply #14 - May 19th, 2021 at 9:45am
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Reason I asked is: I've built a "Bill Webb" rifling machine, made a few 45-70 barrels, now I want to make a 38-55 barrel - needed to order deep hole drill, bore reamer, chamber reamer, bullet mold etc. But in reading about 38-55 I see there's a lot of variation. Just wanted to learn more before chasing down another rabbit hole. Buying a "ready made" would just be too easy. Roll Eyes
  
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