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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Stevens DST function, Hammer fly (Read 5987 times)
Dellet
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Re: Stevens DST function, Hammer fly
Reply #15 - Mar 12th, 2021 at 1:58pm
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The concern right now, is that from the time the set screw makes contact, until the sear will not engage reliably and hold the hammer, is probably no more than 1/2 turn.
  
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JLouis
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Re: Stevens DST function, Hammer fly
Reply #16 - Mar 12th, 2021 at 3:34pm
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That is actually not unusual Dellet the more concerning would be if the screw is so loose fitting that it could then move on its own. If that might be the case just a dab of Blue LocTite and I mean the very least amount possible could then be safely used. A better choice would be a couple of wraps of sewing thread in the threads if have any around the house that is actually small enough to be use. You don't want the screw to be overly snug fitting by any means but just enough to keep it from moving on its own when being used should that also be the case.
  

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bobw
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Re: Stevens DST function, Hammer fly
Reply #17 - Mar 12th, 2021 at 7:09pm
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So dellet, when you turn the screw in what is tripping the hammer?  That sound like a crazy question but it’s not.  The front trigger is what the screw turns against, so if it is close to the sear, turning in the screw could trip the sear and hammer before tripping the rear trigger.  If the rear trigger is tripping (then tripping the sear and hammer) when the screw is turned in, then the trigger may have wear where the rear trigger pulls down under the front trigger when setting, which would cause a short release distance.  This is hard to explain so hope it makes sense to you.  I do have questions about the hammer full notch and sear nose condition also, but don’t think they are your problem here.
Bob
  
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Chuckster
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Re: Stevens DST function, Hammer fly
Reply #18 - Mar 13th, 2021 at 3:25pm
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Trying to draw a picture of what Bob is saying, which is correct.
Attached PDF is using generic set triggers. There are many variations of set triggers.
"Sticky", Stevens 44 dst, in this section sort of explains the fly.
Chuck
« Last Edit: Mar 13th, 2021 at 3:38pm by Chuckster »  
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JLouis
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Re: Stevens DST function, Hammer fly
Reply #19 - Mar 13th, 2021 at 4:42pm
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Click on the below link and then go to post number 15. Its a drawing and parts list for the 0441/2 the 441/2 and a few others. Part #62 is the sear and it is quite different than Chuckster's PDF drawing and the triggers and how they operate are also not the same. The double set trigger parts start at #53 and go to #67 and are on the lower right hand side.

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« Last Edit: Mar 13th, 2021 at 5:46pm by JLouis »  

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bobw
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Re: Stevens DST function, Hammer fly
Reply #20 - Mar 13th, 2021 at 6:58pm
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John, I would say the diagrams in your link are not for a 44 1/2, they appear to have tipping block rather than falling blocks.  Although, the parts list is correct for the 44 1/2 i’m familiar with and the set trigger parts are also correct, again, for the trigger assembly I’m familiar with.  See my photo above in my previous post.

Chucks drawing is also correct for the trigger assembly.  Although the profiles are bit different they are correct for the trigger function,  and show it very well.  The only thing missing, that I see, is the sear spring.  Take a look at my picture and you will see the same sear as shown in the parts break down in your link and in the position shown in Chucks drawing.  Hope this helps.
Bob
  
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bobw
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Re: Stevens DST function, Hammer fly
Reply #21 - Mar 13th, 2021 at 7:10pm
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More pictures that may help.
Bob
  
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JLouis
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Re: Stevens DST function, Hammer fly
Reply #22 - Mar 13th, 2021 at 7:16pm
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Bobw not knowing if the CPA Stevens is exactly the same as an original 0441/2 or 441/2 just in regards to the DST mechanism the parts do appear to be identical in all aspects. There is a spring that does put downward pressure on the back of the sear and the back of the back trigger as well. I am also not trying to create any confusion and I probably should just back on out of the conversation. What is unfortunate is most of these folks don't have the ability to stop by the house so I can actually do something to correct whatever issues they might have and I know I could be of such help. These DST are actually very simple to work on and I have worked on several for my local friends and of course also my own as well. Maybe someone close by can volunteer to do the same and the best way to learn is by watching someone else who does know what it is they are actually doing to remedy the problem and or problems that one might be having.
« Last Edit: Mar 13th, 2021 at 7:21pm by JLouis »  

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bobw
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Re: Stevens DST function, Hammer fly
Reply #23 - Mar 13th, 2021 at 7:28pm
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This is a picture of the right side of the front trigger.  At the top of the slot above the pin hole is the working part of the trigger.  To the front is where the spring pushes keeping the trigger forward.  To the rear, the small triangle area, is where the rear trigger hooks when the trigger is set.  This is the area I was referring to in my post above about possible wear, along with the nose of the rear trigger. The screw pushes against the bottom of the rear extension to adjust the the set trigger and the top of the extension is what pushes the sear when shooting without setting the rear trigger.
  
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bobw
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Re: Stevens DST function, Hammer fly
Reply #24 - Mar 13th, 2021 at 7:38pm
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John, I have no doubt you understand these things and can repair them.  There are lots of different trigger assembles out there and this just happens to be one that I'm familiar with since I had to make one.  Most others I would be totally lost with.  Your thought are always appreciated and helpful, this forum would be less without you.
Bob
  
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JLouis
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Re: Stevens DST function, Hammer fly
Reply #25 - Mar 13th, 2021 at 7:47pm
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As are yours! It is sometimes difficult to try to explain to someone what can actually be easily done on their own. If they can watch someone do it but one time they will have it for a lifetime and they could then help somebody else out.
  

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MrTipUp
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Re: Stevens DST function, Hammer fly
Reply #26 - Mar 13th, 2021 at 8:41pm
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Give a person a fish and  . . . "; you know how the rest goes, right John Louis, and that it's true.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Dellet
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Re: Stevens DST function, Hammer fly
Reply #27 - Mar 13th, 2021 at 11:05pm
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Bit of an update, appears to be operator error of sorts.

To clarify, this is a CPA trigger set in an original 44 1/2.

I pulled an original trigger assembly from another fire for comparison and they are a bit different, mostly pin size, springs are interchangeable. 

Sat down with the DeHaas book and the trigger assemblies and went through adjustments on the table where I could see and feel what was going on.

I’m still not 100% sure what is happening, I think the fit of the CPA trigger assembly into the original action isn’t too tight, causing a bind.

By the book adjustment is back off the screw, set the rear trigger, adjust the screw (which basically just engages the front trigger) until the trigger trips the sear. Back off 1/4 turn and check function.

Installed the trigger assembly and the hammer wouldn’t not set.

Went through the adjustment procedure again. Hammer set and functioned correctly.

Pulled the trigger assembly and re installed. Hammer failed to set. 

Backed off 3 turns, repeated adjustment. Tripped the sear at 2.5 turns in. So after removing and re installing the trigger assembly, set screw adjustment needed to be backed off 3/4.

Pulled the assembly a couple more times, each time the same thing. Adjustment screw needed to be backed off and reset before the hammer could be set.

Main hammer spring tension does not seam the related, adjusting that made no difference when the hammer was failing to cock.

The other trigger assembly I pulled comparison required no adjustment when re installed, I do not remember ever needing to re adjust after removal and install.

Have I been lucky with the others, or is this a potential problem starting?

  
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bobw
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Re: Stevens DST function, Hammer fly
Reply #28 - Mar 14th, 2021 at 12:15pm
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We need to remember that the nose of the sear has to drag against the hammer as it s cocked.  The spring is what causes this to happen and anything that holds it away will cause the hammer to not cock.  I would back the adjust screw out and forget it for now.
Couple questions.  With the trigger set and while pulling the hammer back to full cock do you see any movement in the triggers?
Is the stock off?
When it’s not working hold the rear trigger back as far as it will go, does it cock?
  
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bobw
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Re: Stevens DST function, Hammer fly
Reply #29 - Mar 14th, 2021 at 1:14pm
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Just found these photo from when I was fighting my trigger.  Its an original.
1. Unset trigger, if the spring is in place the nose of the sear will be up and against the hammer when cocking.
2. This show position after a set trigger is tripped.
3. Sear tripped by pulling just front trigger. Exaggerate.
4. Assembly in set position. Sear nose should be up.
5. Original hammer
In theory, set or unset the back of the sear should not contact the triggers while being cocked. If it does it may engage the half cock but not the full cock.   

Also imagine the sear binding in the frame enough to over come the spring pressure and hold the sear away from the hammer, at that point the hammer would not cock either.
« Last Edit: Mar 14th, 2021 at 1:20pm by bobw »  
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