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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) M 77 project (Read 11490 times)
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M 77 project
Feb 28th, 2021 at 11:33am
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I am off on another tangent, had plans of just focusing on the next Ballard or two for this gun building season but another Sharps or three got in the way.  I’d picked up some Sharps castings on eBay a year or so ago, started a ’74 doing some of Freund’s modifications to it, the camming breech block, duel extractors, hammer, etc. – it’s still in the works…  I did a ’74 from one of Rodney’s castings last year – mostly done now but for the final finishes and thought I had it out of my system, obviously not.  Rodney did some castings of the Wyoming Saddle gun and of course I had to have one of those (or two) to keep my mind busy.  So that’s in the works also.  But back to the other castings, I have more than a few ‘74’s so I’m giving it a go – making a ’77.  Being small and thinned up like it is, the first one is going to be a 22 LR or at least that’s my plans at the moment.  I have a “little”  Grin RKS barrel that I originally built as new barrel for my striker Ballard, just a bit on the heavy side so with the thinned up action of the ’77 it should be a good combination.  32” long, measuring 1.265” across the flats.  I had cut a 16 tpi square thread in the Ballard action so not missing a beat, I cut the same threads in this modified Sharps casting – and timed it by just facing a little off the action.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: M 77 project
Reply #1 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 11:42am
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Going to have to trim the straight section off the Ballard design and tweak the sliding extractor a little but it should be good.  One of my peers asked if I was going to do the Freund camming breech block for the 22?  Why not?  Freund had a good idea here, from the one I’ve been working on, the action closes and locks like a vault, if it’s set perfectly square to the chamber and bore is there anything better?  I know it’s a side hammer thing, doesn’t have the lock time of the striker Ballard but still an interesting object.  (I picked up a striker Sharps ’74 a short while ago but studying it, I’m going to leave my striker ambitions to just the Ballards).   
In jest, this build is getting tweaked as I see fit, not that I'm poking fun at Sharps or Ballard or Winchester but, because I can it's getting features from all of them to keep it interesting.   Like Winchester CC triggers, maybe a lever similar to the high wall, a stock with features like those found on a Ballard with that tang and through bolt...  I'll try to update as I proceed and find time to post.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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bobw
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Re: M 77 project
Reply #2 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 1:05pm
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Looks to be some damascus being incorporated into this one.  Interesting and nice as usual Greg, keep the pictures coming.
  
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Longdistance1
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Re: M 77 project
Reply #3 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 1:39pm
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Looks Good,  Keep those pictures coming 
LD1
  
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jhm
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Re: M 77 project
Reply #4 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 6:48pm
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I built one of Rodney's 77 kits many years ago in 45-70. Hardest problem I had was getting the stock put on. Sent it to a place called Long Valley carving in Montana. Just recently found out the gentleman had passed away a few years back. I also had some involvement in a now long defunct company in Ga. that was going to start building 77 rifles. I won't mention the name but I am sure Rodney remembers as he came to visit us one summer. I still have some of the fixtures I built. Sold my prototype many years ago. Wish I had kept it but fell on hard times for a spell. That rifle will be a dandy in 22LR...

JMH
  
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JerryH
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Re: M 77 project
Reply #5 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 9:22pm
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Greg,

A really interesting project. But I have to ask, why is there a penny sitting on the muzzle end of the barrel?

JerryH
  

I'm not a complete idiot, some of my parts are missing.
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Re: M 77 project
Reply #6 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 9:54pm
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I really like your carpentry.  Smiley
  
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Re: M 77 project
Reply #7 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 10:01pm
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It's a muzzle cap fits in the recess in the barrel  Wink
LD1
  
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Re: M 77 project
Reply #8 - Mar 1st, 2021 at 12:25am
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Thanks guys. 
Jerry,
I use to share a lot of photos with a geezer friend of mine, (in almost his words, "even if you're making a rectum for a hobby horse"  Smiley send me pictures... but he always asks that I put something in the picture for him to reference it to, thus the penny.   I guess when you age near the century mark sizes get convoluted.  Grin  (in another life before I started doing the little stuff I do now, not the gun stuff either, I was making a part that I included a penny, only in proportion one couldn't make out the penny so it's an inside joke).  Often times, there's a penny in my photos and I try to make it obvious.

Bob,
I did step out a little, the lock plate and the trigger plate are going to be out of Damascus - if things go as planned - so far so good.

Lynn,
believe it or not that forend and barrel had been on a gun and it had screws holding the wood to the barrel.  When I decided to change the barrel the screws went with the new wood and barrel.  my high tech inner tube bands keep the wood and barrel together and someday I'll make more screws.  Wink

Greg
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: M 77 project
Reply #9 - Mar 1st, 2021 at 12:40am
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The mortice on this action cleaned up fairly well in the slotter, a little work with a file and then touch it with a cast iron lap and it should smooth out nicely.  I’m still experimenting with the angle of the wedge for the camming breech block.  For the center fire action I’m building the entry angle of the breech block at about 3°.  I don’t think the 22 needs that much but I’m going to leave it at that.  The entry radius on the wedge is about .250” and that could be considerably less but because some of my projects seem to change mid-stream, I’m leaving that alone also.   Machining the wedge and block gave me more problems this time around.  The first set I did for the ’74 - I hit first time, a few strokes to blend the radius’s and everything matched up perfect, couldn’t see daylight when they went together.  This one, I chased the angles, then the flats, then the radius – had to lap things to get a good fit, sometimes a guy is lucky and sometimes he misses the boat completely.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: M 77 project
Reply #10 - Mar 1st, 2021 at 11:56am
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Greg, Looks like I need to get the shaper going and start using it.  Looks like you used the slotter to cut the radius.
Out of curiosity what do you use for lapping compound.  I’ve used valve lapping compound but wondering if there is something better out there.
  
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Re: M 77 project
Reply #11 - Mar 1st, 2021 at 3:41pm
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Bob,
For cutting the radius I used a flycutter in the mill.  The shaper does it ok but not quite as fast of a setup and I'd have to grind some HSS bits, I always have some brazed carbide around one of the lathes that is either ground for a radius or suffered a crash and doesn't take much to make a radius tool... Grin
For coarse lapping I use Clover brand usually in a medium grit, (valve lapping cpd is generally quite coarse) and Kingsford Charcoal fluid for a medium on my lapping table, or between the parts.  To get a finer finish, I use a diamond compound (an assortment off eBay) to get a high finish, flat surface, use a piece of aluminum foil folded over a small granite surface - again with Kingsford as a medium.  I do this once the mating parts fit up nice- the diamond compound removes very little but will take surfaces to a mirror finish.  I salvage cast iron everytime I see it and machine it to make laps - for mortises, bores, radius's etc. saves time trying to get a high, even or uniform finish with emery paper.  I'll score the cast iron with the corner of a file to give me grooves for the compound and fluid.  I'll share pictures of some of the laps -later.  Attached a couple of photos of my stationary table and a small cheapo granite surface wrapped in foil working a Ballard block to a high finish.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: M 77 project
Reply #12 - Mar 1st, 2021 at 7:07pm
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Bob,
Attached pictures of some of the laps I could lay hands on, one fits a Farrow or a Saddle Gun, another a Hepburn, and maybe a HW?  What I've found is you cut or broach and file a mortise close and it looks good, a lap will tell you how flat and even the surface is.  If you take your time you can get it real smooth, lap the breech block to fit on a table or in this case, the pictures show a couple of 6" diameter circles of cast iron? [I machined them in a lathe as flat and smooth as I could, lapped them to each other (4 sides) until they all came out even - I had 4 very flat surfaces to go to.]  A lapped action and breech block - fit and slide better then a well worn one, then you case harden it and it'll remind you cycling a Krag action.   Here's a before and after of the breechblock, milled and filed, then if the picture does it justice, less than 10 minutes lapping as seen, very flat, very smooth.  Unfortunately, I still have .008" to come off that face to fit properly so it goes back to the mill and the same things happens again - this was just practice.  Wink
Tom Lipton has a very good youtube series on lapping - he must have learned from the same folks Grin Grin

  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: M 77 project
Reply #13 - Mar 1st, 2021 at 7:32pm
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Sure would like to come hang out in your shop for a while...



JMH
  
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Re: M 77 project
Reply #14 - Mar 1st, 2021 at 8:03pm
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JMH, 
you are welcome to, but you have to be careful also, if the weather turns off nice in a month or two there's a building going up.  If you have any experience in that you'll be put to work. Grin
Greg
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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