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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Ballard Identity help (Read 5598 times)
Cbashooter
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Ballard Identity help
Jan 5th, 2021 at 8:17pm
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I just bought online.it was converted to a 3p smallbore rifle years ago.any help as to what parts it may be built from would help.

  
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rkba2nd
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Re: Ballard Identity help
Reply #1 - Jan 5th, 2021 at 8:38pm
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A lined Rigby barrel, and possibly a Pacific action. Im sure Marlinguy will chime in.
  

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MrTipUp
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Re: Ballard Identity help
Reply #2 - Jan 6th, 2021 at 7:39am
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In my opinion, that's an almost criminal thing to do to an original Ballard Rigby barrel.

Bill Lawrence
  
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kensmachine
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Re: Ballard Identity help
Reply #3 - Jan 6th, 2021 at 9:45am
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being a 2 line address it's most likely a forged action but one would  have to check it out at the same time you could check the s/n's. I don't think any will match the breech block has no firing pin screw so it's a rim fire breech block. ken
« Last Edit: Jan 6th, 2021 at 9:51am by kensmachine »  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard Identity help
Reply #4 - Jan 6th, 2021 at 10:30am
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I think Krag is correct. It's of course a Rigby barrel, and likely a Pacific action. The DST breech block would be very unusual for a RF only rifle, and once you've got it and can examine it closer you may find it's a CF block that's been converted for .22RF use.
Also once you have it, you might pull the forearm off and see if the dual pins for a Pacific forearm are still on the front of the frame. They all had the holes, but only receivers made for models with a wiping rod got the pointed pins.
  

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Cbashooter
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Re: Ballard Identity help
Reply #5 - Jan 6th, 2021 at 10:44am
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Thanks for all the input.we will see what I have when it arrives, being a Franken gun I didn't pay alot.i wanted a vintage. 22 varmint gun for the field I didn't feel bad about using and adding "character"
  
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rkba2nd
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Re: Ballard Identity help
Reply #6 - Jan 6th, 2021 at 12:13pm
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Mr TipUp, When that rifle was built, Hundreds of fine Ballard rifles were scavanged for actions to build position and prone rifles. It would probably make your skin crawl. the rifles had very little collector value then, so not a criminal act then as now. Kind of like Buffalo, so many, you could never destroy them all. The Ballards were the chosen ones, for their contribution to and reputation for fine accuracy. I have seen many fine engraved Ballard actions treated in the same manner.
  

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Cbashooter
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Re: Ballard Identity help
Reply #7 - Jan 6th, 2021 at 12:26pm
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rkba2nd

Exactly. a friend of mine in Portland had a collection of varmint rifles built on Hepburn's,Borschts and some other fine single shots built back in the thirties and forties that were just a sin to have done that too but back then nobody cared.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard Identity help
Reply #8 - Jan 6th, 2021 at 1:12pm
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Some purists think that even those rifles customized by highly regarded gunsmiths are still travesties against the gun's originality.
I am attracted to customized guns, whether they're schuetzen, or varmint rifles IF the work is well done. I find those old varmint or sporterized rifles to be a neat part of history if well done. Problem is a good number aren't well done.
  

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Cbashooter
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Re: Ballard Identity help
Reply #9 - Jan 6th, 2021 at 2:48pm
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I'm with you marlinguy.thise rifles I mentioned were Joolies.He had some nice stuff.im not sure in Eileen sold any of it off at Cornfoot.
  
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Re: Ballard Identity help
Reply #10 - Jan 6th, 2021 at 4:11pm
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Back then the action of Ballard and other single shots was the basis for 100's of small bore target and varmint rifles. Ammunition was not available the ASSRA was in it's infancy and it was the thing to do. I read years ago that some gunsmith used the pull off barrels for rebar it a concrete wall he had built.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard Identity help
Reply #11 - Jan 6th, 2021 at 4:37pm
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Cbashooter wrote on Jan 6th, 2021 at 2:48pm:
I'm with you marlinguy.thise rifles I mentioned were Joolies.He had some nice stuff.im not sure in Eileen sold any of it off at Cornfoot.


Most of what Hooley had got stolen by Tom Axtell long before Hooley died. He gave huge numbers of guns to Axtell to sell, and he told me he got paid for the first small group he had Axtell sell. Then he made the mistake of giving Tom a huge amount of his guns, and never saw a cent. Then Axtell disappeared with his money, never to be seen again.
Eileen's collection was as Hooley said, "Better than the stuff I had!"
Eileen's father was Hooley's good friend, and he left everything in the way of fine guns to Eileen. She did eventually sell some of them, but never had any of Hooley's to sell.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard Identity help
Reply #12 - Jan 6th, 2021 at 4:39pm
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scharfe wrote on Jan 6th, 2021 at 4:11pm:
Back then the action of Ballard and other single shots was the basis for 100's of small bore target and varmint rifles. Ammunition was not available the ASSRA was in it's infancy and it was the thing to do. I read years ago that some gunsmith used the pull off barrels for rebar it a concrete wall he had built.


And some of the barrels pulled off and tossed aside were from famous makers like Pope, Schoyen, etc. and not appreciated for what they were!
  

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Re: Ballard Identity help
Reply #13 - Jan 7th, 2021 at 4:44pm
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A lot of folks new to this game have no idea of the things done to them. During WW2 some one here posted of seeing a Rifle Buttstock sticking out of a Trash barrel as he drove by. So he stopped and asked about it at the House. It had been put out by the family as a Metal donation for the War drive. He asked if he could take it if he supplied equal weight in steel. The Lady said OK but she would not let him take unless he left his identification. He said OK and collected all the stuff in the Barrel and went home and came up with  the weight and returned to show her what he had and she said OK. It was a complete Pope outfit with all the tools. This was posted here I think or maybe on the old Google schuetzen site we had running before Jim Borton and a few of us created what
became the ASSRA Forum. I remember meeting a couple of Gunsmiths who were salvaging M1886 Winchesters in the early 1960s and re barreling them in .33 Winchester and 45-70, They used the old barrels for which you could no longer at that time find ammo for them and used them for re-bar when they cemented their Drive way. So don't be so hard on the old Timers. If not for them there would be a lot fewer of them around. FITZ, OLD TUCK Huh
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard Identity help
Reply #14 - Jan 7th, 2021 at 7:26pm
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OLD TUCK wrote on Jan 7th, 2021 at 4:44pm:
A lot of folks new to this game have no idea of the things done to them. During WW2 some one here posted of seeing a Rifle Buttstock sticking out of a Trash barrel as he drove by. So he stopped and asked about it at the House. It had been put out by the family as a Metal donation for the War drive. He asked if he could take it if he supplied equal weight in steel. The Lady said OK but she would not let him take unless he left his identification. He said OK and collected all the stuff in the Barrel and went home and came up with  the weight and returned to show her what he had and she said OK. It was a complete Pope outfit with all the tools. This was posted here I think or maybe on the old Google schuetzen site we had running before Jim Borton and a few of us created what
became the ASSRA Forum. I remember meeting a couple of Gunsmiths who were salvaging M1886 Winchesters in the early 1960s and re barreling them in .33 Winchester and 45-70, They used the old barrels for which you could no longer at that time find ammo for them and used them for re-bar when they cemented their Drive way. So don't be so hard on the old Timers. If not for them there would be a lot fewer of them around. FITZ, OLD TUCK Huh


I posted that here, but it wasn't a complete shooting kit with tools. "Just a Pope Ballard." I think the story from the man's daughter was he took back twice as much weight as the gun, just to ensure she'd accept the trade of scrap for "scrap gun".
At the time I couldn't afford it, so passed it along to my friend who ended up buying it. A Union Hill Ballard, with Pope barrel.
  

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