Swede wrote on Jan 25^th, 2019 at 9:29am:


One could even postulate that maybe "flat bottom" rifling was actually invented by Chinese and introduced to Europe by Marco Polo via the "Silk Road". Or maybe Persia got it from Chinese, Arabia got it from Persia, France got it from Moors, Belgium got it from France, Germany got it from Belgium and, finally, Husqvarna got it from Sauer. Where does Alexandra Henry actually fit in all this?

svartkruttgris#369 wrote on Jan 25^th, 2019 at 10:57am:


They might have brought it from China alright, but the Germans added the twist to it about 1500      Wonder if any of my granddaddies were involved. We didn't come to the colonies until 1700. 

While Sven-Karl-akvavit trio has a certain probability of being effective in affecting precision rifling of barrels in Husqvarna Firearms Factory, the Ancient Chinese Origin concept and its spread to Europe and America has its own, well documented cultural realities. For example, even though the ability to make quite elongated, round holes in tools must be nearly as ancient as advanced hominoids, it seems less inevitable that ancient attempts to improve down range effectiveness of early Chinese fire sticks by introduction of spinning projectiles would have quickly led to round-bottomed spiral grooves where the round bottoms would have been concentric with the ID of the long, round holes down which the projectiles were propelled by "dragon fire". Using the elegance of simple, already available tool technology, "flat-bottomed" spiral grooves would have appealed to the very practical Han tribes of ancient China. And the spread of ancient Chinese technology across the Eurasian landmass toward the Big Water on the sundown side of that landmass has long been documented. From this perspective, the consequences of Sven, Karl and akvavit, as well as the more considered exploitations by HM Pope were natural consequences, even if not fully understood as such by later technologists.

Schuetzenmiester wrote on Jan 25^th, 2019 at 8:19pm:


IF there is any documentation on the first attempts, imagine how long ago that was and the odds that there was any documentation at all. At least what "history" I have read re early uses of "gunpowder" in China, is that it was for impressive "stunts" and displays, although I don't recall much detail. Wirllng projectiles could have been impressive displays.

One seemingly reasonable basis for thinking that there were any deliberate attempts to improve accuracy, for either displays or war, by spinning projectiles is that arrows had been spun for  1.000s of years in many widely spaced cultures to make them more accurate -- so, the principle was well known.

In addition, consider that, once bronze age was well established, drills must have evolved a lot, perhaps even to those capable of cutting spirals.

marlinguy wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 10:39am:


It was a Friday rifle, or maybe a Monday rifle.

And I was in a shop once that had just gotten a shipment of new Colts in. As they were opening the boxes to check the serial numbers they discovered a new Diamondback that had no rifling at all and had been test fired.

FYI- this rifle is essentially a 38-55 with a 2.25 in long chamber and the smaller rim of the 9.3x57R.  So I turned down Starline 38-55 cases to fit and loaded them with 40 gr Swiss 1 1/2 G over 3.5 gr of 4759.  Topped that with a .060 was and seated a Lyman 250 gr bullet dropped at .375 and pan lubed with DGL.  I'm happy to report it didn't blow up nor did it lead the heck out of the barrel!  All is well as it shot center when I did my part!

BTW  and FYI this rifle is serial number 152xx.  I wonder if its a smokeless era rifle.

oneatatime wrote on Jan 28^th, 2019 at 12:50am:


Do these have metric threads?