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Slugging a Husqvarna Type 33A Rolling block (Read 14052 times)

Yellowhouse Full Member Offline Posts: 155 Location: Oklahoma Joined: Mar 31^st, 2008	Re: Slugging a Husqvarna Type 33A Rolling block Reply #15 - Jan 23^rd, 2019 at 7:58pm	Print Post
	oneatatime wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2019 at 4:42pm: I think we know what you were saying - for that largest measure you are measuring from one edge of the raised portion of a bullet to the same edge on the opposite side of the bullet. What you want to do is measure from the top of the raised portion to the top of the raised portion on the opposite side. Remember that if your bullet starts at that diameter that the lead that was in the "grooves" of the fired bullet had to go somewhere - either into making the large diameter larger or forming tails on the rear of the bullet behind the grooves. So you think that a ~.369ish bullet is more in order?


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Yellowhouse Full Member Offline Posts: 155 Location: Oklahoma Joined: Mar 31^st, 2008	Re: Slugging a Husqvarna Type 33A Rolling block Reply #16 - Jan 23^rd, 2019 at 8:00pm	Print Post
	The culprit:


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Yellowhouse Full Member Offline Posts: 155 Location: Oklahoma Joined: Mar 31^st, 2008	Re: Slugging a Husqvarna Type 33A Rolling block Reply #17 - Jan 23^rd, 2019 at 8:03pm	Print Post
	marlinguy wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2019 at 7:55pm: svartkruttgris#369 wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2019 at 7:49pm: Wide grooves with "flat" bottoms. Is such common? It's exactly how Pope did his famous rifling. Val is yours rifled like this? Anyone elses?


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svartkruttgris#369 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2980 Location: Colorado, Norway, Sweden Joined: Oct 28^th, 2014	Re: Slugging a Husqvarna Type 33A Rolling block Reply #18 - Jan 23^rd, 2019 at 9:48pm	Print Post
	marlinguy wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2019 at 7:55pm: svartkruttgris#369 wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2019 at 7:49pm: Wide grooves with "flat" bottoms. Is such common? It's exactly how Pope did his famous rifling. So, did the Pope borrow from the lads at Husqvarna way back then?? Or did the lads borrow from Mauser or Saur or ?? and the Pope did too?


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oldman46 Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 424 Joined: Sep 21^st, 2016	Re: Slugging a Husqvarna Type 33A Rolling block Reply #19 - Jan 23^rd, 2019 at 11:36pm	Print Post
	Bought the 9.3x57 a few years back and probably has the original stock. So before I shoot it will glass bed where the recoil lug and tang are. Did come drilled and tapped with the aluminum weaver bases and bolt altered for scope usage. Have a bunch of the PPU (Serbian) 286 grain round nosed soft points. The nitroexpress forums have a bunch of load data for this cartridge. But I suspect the owner of that husky model 33 may want to be shooting cast bullets. That is one sweet rifle. Frank


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svartkruttgris#369 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2980 Location: Colorado, Norway, Sweden Joined: Oct 28^th, 2014	Re: Slugging a Husqvarna Type 33A Rolling block Reply #20 - Jan 24^th, 2019 at 9:54am	Print Post
	oneatatime wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2019 at 4:42pm: Remember that if your bullet starts at that diameter that the lead that was in the "grooves" of the fired bullet had to go somewhere - either into making the large diameter larger or forming tails on the rear of the bullet behind the grooves. I seem to recall something about the Pope not liking "tails" on lead bullets. IF SO, would that be reason for "flat-bottomed" grooves on rifles designed to soft Pb alloy bullets into small groups?


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Bill Lawrence Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1037 Joined: Mar 17^th, 2014	Re: Slugging a Husqvarna Type 33A Rolling block Reply #21 - Jan 24^th, 2019 at 10:59am	Print Post
	Who Pope borrowed the most from was George Schalk. Also, there used to be a copy of Pope's catalog on-line (or Cornell currently sells one), wherein he describes the intricacies and reasons for his rifling. Bill Lawrence


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18049 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Slugging a Husqvarna Type 33A Rolling block Reply #22 - Jan 24^th, 2019 at 11:12am	Print Post
	"The Pope" would be HM Pope, and as Bill mentioned some of what he did was based on Schalk's work, but mostly it was Schalk's muzzleloader breech seating barrels. Of course we know that idea wasn't really Schalk's either; it was Doc Hudson's idea and Schalk made it somewhat under protest. When it worked out for Hudson, Schalk made a lot more gladly. Pope's method of rifling wasn't to eliminate tails, it was muzzleloading the bullets that eliminated tails. If you look at Pope's rifling it has the flat bottom to the grooves, and also the narrow lands and wide grooves. But of course it's left hand twist. It also does not have the deep grooves the Husky used. Pope's grooves were barely deeper than the bore diameter in the middle of the grooves. It was the squared corners of his cutter that gave the depth, and once cut deep enough for the center of the cutter to begin cutting it stopped with the center having very little depth. Not uncommon to see barrel makers using wide grooves and narrow lands in custom barrels, and that's what really eliminates tails on breech seating, or fixed ammo barrels. The narrow lands cut into the bullet and move less lead, where wide lands push more lead around, and leave it hanging out as tails. Schoyen used the same narrow lands and wide grooves, but his cutter was contoured to the bore, so it moved even less lead when the bullet contacted the rifling.

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Fred Boulton Oldtimer Offline Posts: 801 Joined: Jan 6^th, 2007	Re: Slugging a Husqvarna Type 33A Rolling block Reply #23 - Jan 24^th, 2019 at 11:28am	Print Post
	If you have access to a lathe, measuring your slug is easy. Chuck up a piece of scrap metal and drill it out using a bit just less than your perceived bore---the bit should just slide into your barrel. Then, using a boring bar, gradually open up the hole until the slug just slides into it with light pressure. Measure the hole---this is your groove diameter. Fred


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svartkruttgris#369 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2980 Location: Colorado, Norway, Sweden Joined: Oct 28^th, 2014	Re: Slugging a Husqvarna Type 33A Rolling block Reply #24 - Jan 24^th, 2019 at 1:52pm	Print Post
	Bill Lawrence wrote on Jan 24^th, 2019 at 10:59am: Who Pope borrowed the most from was George Schalk. Also, there used to be a copy of Pope's catalog on-line (or Cornell currently sells one), wherein he describes the intricacies and reasons for his rifling. Bill Lawrence Thanks Bill for reminder -- think I might still have copy of that Pope's report in a retired computer -- it sounds like something I read long ago.


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Yellowhouse Full Member Offline Posts: 155 Location: Oklahoma Joined: Mar 31^st, 2008	Re: Slugging a Husqvarna Type 33A Rolling block Reply #25 - Jan 24^th, 2019 at 1:53pm	Print Post
	Fred Boulton wrote on Jan 24^th, 2019 at 11:28am: If you have access to a lathe, measuring your slug is easy. Chuck up a piece of scrap metal and drill it out using a bit just less than your perceived bore---the bit should just slide into your barrel. Then, using a boring bar, gradually open up the hole until the slug just slides into it with light pressure. Measure the hole---this is your groove diameter. Fred How to determine groove isn't the question. The question is that , based on my measurements and considering this type of rifling, which measurement would you use to select a mold? The .368 or .374?


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svartkruttgris#369 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2980 Location: Colorado, Norway, Sweden Joined: Oct 28^th, 2014	Re: Slugging a Husqvarna Type 33A Rolling block Reply #26 - Jan 24^th, 2019 at 2:05pm	Print Post
	marlinguy wrote on Jan 24^th, 2019 at 11:12am: It also does not have the deep grooves the Husky used. Have looked down bores of some really nice old drillings with 9,3X72 rifle barrels & don't recall any that did not have some of deepest grooves I ever saw. Always presumed those barrels were intended for soft Pb bullets and BP hunting loads. Presume Husqvarna simply copied from Sauer, their major component supplier, at least for hammer doubles.


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oneatatime Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4465 Location: Rocky Mountains Joined: Oct 30^th, 2011	Re: Slugging a Husqvarna Type 33A Rolling block Reply #27 - Jan 24^th, 2019 at 8:52pm	Print Post
	I reslugged and measured both of my 33s. The 6 wide grooves are arcs of a cylinder and the lands are narrow. My newest one, which was said to be near the end of production measured .366 (with a micrometer) and the older, mid production one, measured just under .365. My Accurate moulds are casting .367 and .368 and I've been sizing them to .366. I may look into getting a .367 die for the newer rifle depending on how well it shoots with the .366 bullets or I may just pan lube a few first and shoot as cast. I think I'll also remeasure the barrel on my Husky 17C which is also a fairly late one.


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Swede Junior Member Offline Posts: 55 Location: Karlskrona Joined: Sep 12^th, 2007	Re: Slugging a Husqvarna Type 33A Rolling block Reply #28 - Jan 25^th, 2019 at 9:29am	Print Post
	The flat bottom rifling were most likely inspired by Alexander Henry, dont think Husqvarna knew of HM Pope in the late 1860...


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Chuckster Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2312 Location: Colorado Joined: May 15^th, 2008	Re: Slugging a Husqvarna Type 33A Rolling block Reply #29 - Jan 25^th, 2019 at 10:51am	Print Post
	Interesting thing about Pope type rifiling is flat bottom grooves don't work. If you draw an enlarged view, corners of the grooves get too deep before the center of the reaches bore diameter. Groove radius is some function of the bore diameter. Makes you admire Mr. Pope's work even more. Chuck


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