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Bulseyetom
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Remington Hepburn dates of manufacture question
Nov 5th, 2018 at 11:20pm
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I have no knowledge of the Hepburn rifles and was wondering how can one easily tell if the individual rifle qualifies as an antique?  What is the serial number cut-off?  Are there easily identified changes to the rifle that only antique ones have?  I am thinking of selling several modern single shot rifles and obtaining an original Hepburn to be rebuilt into a nice looking rifle in 38-50.  Tom
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Remington Hepburn dates of manufacture question
Reply #1 - Nov 6th, 2018 at 10:25am
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If it has the original barrel serial numbered to the action, then a rollstamp on the barrel of "E Remington and Sons" will be antique. Some "Remington Arms Co." are antique, but not all. 
If it has a steel forearm cap it is also antique, as the plain wood with ebony V came late in production.
It's estimated that approximately 1200 guns were made each year from 1880 up to 1885, and they started with #1 and went forward from there. So about serial #6600 was the cutoff for the early rollstamped guns. Reorganization took a couple years or more before guns appeared with the later marking, and that puts them in  the late 1880's. At that point they resumed but continued to use earlier marked barrels, so they are found up to around serial #7200. Total production numbers go up to around 10050, but there are many missing numbers totaling around 100 in the changeover to the new owners, so less than 10,000 total made. 
So based on the later production of approximately 3,000 guns over 15 years to end of production in 1904, it would likely have to a higher number than #9,000@ to be modern. At around serial number I 9890 they added that "I" prefix, so all I prefixes are for sure modern. 
Clear as mud huh? Wish I could tell you an exact number, but most consider that #9000 as a general cutoff, but it might be higher. The I prefix is a really firm cutoff for modern.
  

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Bulseyetom
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Re: Remington Hepburn dates of manufacture question
Reply #2 - Nov 6th, 2018 at 11:02pm
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Thanks.  Tom
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Remington Hepburn dates of manufacture question
Reply #3 - Nov 6th, 2018 at 11:23pm
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You're welcome Tom. Hope it helped at least a little in determining age.
  

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CW
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Re: Remington Hepburn dates of manufacture question
Reply #4 - Nov 6th, 2018 at 11:41pm
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marlinguy wrote on Nov 6th, 2018 at 10:25am:
If it has the original barrel serial numbered to the action, then a rollstamp on the barrel of "E Remington and Sons" will be antique. Some "Remington Arms Co." are antique, but not all. 
If it has a steel forearm cap it is also antique, as the plain wood with ebony V came late in production.
It's estimated that approximately 1200 guns were made each year from 1880 up to 1885, and they started with #1 and went forward from there. So about serial #6600 was the cutoff for the early rollstamped guns. Reorganization took a couple years or more before guns appeared with the later marking, and that puts them in  the late 1880's. At that point they resumed but continued to use earlier marked barrels, so they are found up to around serial #7200. Total production numbers go up to around 10050, but there are many missing numbers totaling around 100 in the changeover to the new owners, so less than 10,000 total made. 
So based on the later production of approximately 3,000 guns over 15 years to end of production in 1904, it would likely have to a higher number than #9,000@ to be modern. At around serial number I 9890 they added that "I" prefix, so all I prefixes are for sure modern. 
Clear as mud huh? Wish I could tell you an exact number, but most consider that #9000 as a general cutoff, but it might be higher. The I prefix is a really firm cutoff for modern.

That is a very good recap. Brief and to the point. I may have to copy and print it.   
I am on the 12 step program for Hepburns. Sadly most of mine have been one sort or another of a Hepburn rescue. SO many of them have been hack up, tangs bobed and one chromed. Yuck!

-CW
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Remington Hepburn dates of manufacture question
Reply #5 - Nov 7th, 2018 at 9:51am
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Cw, that brings up a good point on Hepburns, and many old single shots. We need to ensure they're all matching numbers before we use a particular example to determine what is correct or original.
In the back of Rowe's book on Hepburns are a good number of examples of Hepburns by serial number, but many were not original guns, so the data is skewed. I know of several listed there that info was sent to him, but no notation in the book stating they'd been reworked, rebarreled, or altered. So now it's in print, and those reading that info will assume it's been documented and double checked.
  

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Re: Remington Hepburn dates of manufacture question
Reply #6 - Nov 9th, 2018 at 2:54pm
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Hi guys I have Remington Hepburn roll marked and sons 45-70 stamped on bottom of the barrel 1\2 way up, 1 inch straight octagon, low matching numbers 25xx ,good bore ,good solid wood, purdy sure it's a match #3 period tang site mid range,  original ?think it is.  1883 ?

I have shot maybe 50 rounds in it and in bp swiss 1 1\2  65 grs and .30 card, powder compressed so 500 gr bullet will kiss the lands. I can with that load get fairly decent groups had a few cloverleaf rounds with it after I got settled in with the old girl.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Remington Hepburn dates of manufacture question
Reply #7 - Nov 9th, 2018 at 11:14pm
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I'd think your guess is pretty close. 1882-1883 I'd guesstimate. Have to double check one of mine to be sure, but I believe Remington serial numbered stocks. So you might remove the forearm and check both the barrel channel, and the rear surface. Same for buttstock. Remove and check tang area, and under buttplate.
  

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Re: Remington Hepburn dates of manufacture question
Reply #8 - Nov 10th, 2018 at 1:17am
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Well pulled the wood off and no markings of any type but S/N is stamped on butt plate. I looked on bottom of the tang sight no markings. 

Thanks Clay
  
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Re: Remington Hepburn dates of manufacture question
Reply #9 - Nov 11th, 2018 at 9:35am
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My Hepburn is a U.T. Browning Bro's marked gun with ebony fore arm tip. Utah statehood was 1896, so apparently the mfg. date was prior to that. How long did the Browning's mark territorial guns from their shop?
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kw
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Remington Hepburn dates of manufacture question
Reply #10 - Nov 11th, 2018 at 9:48am
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I don't think I've ever seen a Browning Bros. marked rifle that didn't have the UT rollstamp. Considering the cost of a rollstamp back then, my guess is they continued to use it throughout their existence. After all, the UT could be Utah, whether it was Utah Territory, or the state. Doubt they'd spend more money to have their rollstamp changed.
But I've seen Browning Bros. UT marked guns that lettered after 1900, but not after WWI. So not sure exactly when they did stop marking guns.
  

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Re: Remington Hepburn dates of manufacture question
Reply #11 - Nov 12th, 2018 at 12:32am
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well when I was cleaning up the wood ,I found 2678  stamped on both the upper and lower tang left side but the s/n on the receiver and barrel  25xx ?
  
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Re: Remington Hepburn dates of manufacture question
Reply #12 - Nov 12th, 2018 at 8:06am
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Not uncommon to have mismatched numbers like that. Both of mine did.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Remington Hepburn dates of manufacture question
Reply #13 - Nov 12th, 2018 at 11:08am
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boommer wrote on Nov 12th, 2018 at 12:32am:
well when I was cleaning up the wood ,I found 2678  stamped on both the upper and lower tang left side but the s/n on the receiver and barrel  25xx ?


The numbers on the tang sides are not serial numbers. They are assembly or work order numbers. My Match B is #85xx, but the tangs are #157.
You should also look closer at the wood, as the ends of the forearm and buttstock should have serial numbers matching the gun's serial number. On the forearm it will be on the raised rectange of wood that goes into the receiver. On the buttstock it will be on one of the two raised rectangles of wood that slip into the action. Usually on the right side one.
  

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Re: Remington Hepburn dates of manufacture question
Reply #14 - Nov 12th, 2018 at 3:10pm
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marlinguy you are rite on the buttstock it's on the front of the boss that fits into the receiver 25xx. 

The forend no number on back I could find but I pulled the schnabel cap and  S/N was stamped on the cap ! 25xx 


Thanks for all the info guys,  was'nt so computer handicaped I COULD POST PIC'S !
Thanks Clay

  
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