G,day,
          Have a Low Wall in .218Bee, what would be max cup for this action? Lyman lists 10 gns 4227 50 gn cast GC. @ 2100 FPS approx .Would this be a safe loading?

Cheers Mal in au.

Fortunately,
the 218 Bee has a small diameter case head/rim,
so backthrust on action should be less than larger cases
beltfed/arnie

There has been several discussions on Low-Wall strength, so here is my opinion (FWIW).

The LW action is not dangerous with any reasonable overload. You can blow up any action.
If overloaded, however, it will batter (deform) the upper right receiver shoulder until you lose headspace or maybe, crack the casehardening.
Usually takes many shots to accomplish this.
Attached is a chart using SAAMI pressures and cartridge base diameter, but it is difficult to figure out.

Did not answer the question, but guessing the load is about 30-35 KSI and probably OK in a LW for that cartridge diameter.
Chuck

Go read all those long discussions in ASSRA Archives. Maybe someone answered that there. 

But, since you seem to have all this wonderful old Winchester stuff, why don't you know the answer? Might help someone. Especially if you share all those good old Winchester informations with all the 32-20 users here. Might be a great public service.

I have already made my determination and have yet to see any adverse consequences of using loads listed as producing up to 26.000 PSI for what must be many 100s of true HV loads over 15+ years in this old rifle. No signs of any increase in head space and cases extract easily. No signs of any damage anywhere in lock up either.

Until you can produce abundant definitive information about max chamber pressures for 32-20 in early Win LWs, the onus is on you. Until then, you are just blowing smoke, quoting obscure information.

By the way, why would Winchester toute their little Low Wall 32-20s and take sales away from their flagship lever gun repeaters?

Hi Frank!

Just rechecked 32-20 loads listed in Lyman's 38, all apparently for rifles, although I can find no statement in that edition that these are rifle only loads.

What I can say is that the loads listed go to heavier powder charges than I ever used, by up to 2,5 grains of 4759, and much higher velocities for same charge weights than I get from my old rifle.

Also checked Lyman #44 and find only one load that copies what I am using for 100 gr mantled bullet. Starting load of 4227 is same as what I am using although muzzle velocity is a bit over 160 fps faster than from my rifle, thanks to its ratty bore. This is also same starting load as in Lyman 47, possibly same data.

The possibilities that you guess at are pretty much SOP. I have yet to see any information that they were ever observed by Winchester in early LWs using Winchester HV ammo.

Thanks!

svartkruttgris#369 wrote on Aug 27^th, 2018 at 11:58pm:

Grisen,
The next time you crack open your Ideal Handbook No. 38 (which shows a published date of 1951), closely compare the 32-20 loads shown on pages 76-77, with those 32-20 loads shown on page 97. 
And don't use the loads shown on pages 76-77 in the old 32-20 revolvers.
People caused themselves, and those good old revolvers, and some rifles, enough troubles when they ignored the warning labels that were printed on the sides of the old Hi-Vel loading cartridge boxes.

Frank,

This business of searching even fairly recent loading manuals can be rewarding, as well as missleading. For example; Lyman 47 page 263, 30 M-1 Carbine.
IMR 4227 13,5 gr 110 gr Jacketed RN 1642 fps 28.200 CUP. 

32-20 case is about 10% larger than 30 Carbine and I only get 1550 fps from 13,0 grains, weighed on verified powder scale . Rough estimate for my old rifle would be maybe 20% below that pressure which is 22560 CUP, only considering differences in case volume and 10 grains less bullet weight. Add in the 0,5 grains less 4227, if you want, to get even lower estimate of chamber pressure in my old rifle. 

Furthermore, I am shooting a 0,312" Hornady XTP bullet down a 0,313" bore. A bore that starts at 0,316" and over several cm gets to 0,313". Hardly a means of increasing or even maintaining chamber pressures. 

Frankly, I am surprised that I get such nice 100 yd groups as I do. But, such much improved group sizes have been reported often for mantled bullets in ratty old 32-20 bores. Actually, every since I was 13 year old, with another old Win LW, I have been told that by same gunshop/gunsmith that got me into loading my own BP ammo for that rifle. That ratty bored rifle took 50 original HV load with 80 gr 2000 fps over several years, killing numeous foxes, etc. Also no loosening of breech block or increase in headspace seen with gauges.

Note that those 30 Carbine data referenced above are reported to be with 0,308" bullet in a 0,308" bore.

No change in headspace seen, fired primers remain flush with base of cases. Cases extract easily. Case life appears to be good, with at least 5 loading per case for cases used in load development. Breech block is tight fit to back of barrel and base of case is almost touching face, as it has been for over 10 years.

Thanks for your concern and attempts to make rational arguments. However, given the apparent difference between conditions for loading data for new, tight bores, and smaller 30 carbine case and performance in my old rifle, I will continue to use this load for the very limited hunting it is used for. It will not used for many shots per year, in any case. Presently, this load is only to be used for 10-20 more "1st shot from cold, dry bore" and hopefully only 1 shot for this year's turkey. 

Thanks!
Den SKG:en

To answer the question posed by the two "J" guys with another question: What does post by oldman46 have to do with maximum pressure for original Win LW?

To make a further attempt to answer Joe The Westerner's question: It was an exercise pointing out that actual chamber pressures in my present hunting load for my 1908 Win LW are 
easily estimated to be only about 22-23 thousand CPUs and NO ill effects are being seen, at least not yet (ditto for another old ratty early 1900s Win LW in 32-20 used with the original Win HV 80 gr 2000 or so fps HP loads).

You might also want to take note of the poster in this thread that clearly has been highly and indelibly impressed with Winchester's 1892 lever gun repeater and the original WIN HV "HP" 120 gr loads that Win used to help sell there cute little 1892s. He has been convenced by Winchester's sales propaganda that such loads will DESTROY those little, old 1908 Win LW. I say BS!!

Now, you might still be lost. Sorry! My apologies to OP if he too is still "at sea". Do you, by any chance, have a technically sound answer to the question asked by OP?

Den: SKG:en