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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Turning Necks (Read 20293 times)
JerryH
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Re: Turning Necks
Reply #45 - May 25th, 2018 at 2:28pm
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JLouis wrote on May 25th, 2018 at 2:06pm:
BobZ I always index my case so I have never spent the time and effort to go out to try to find one that might not require my doing so, so should I have one I really cannot honesty say one way or the other. I also and a quite common practice index the bullet and I also and not a so common practice index the primer as well.

JLouis


I was wondering when that would come up. I've been indexing my primers for quite some time. 

Probably not necessary if your firing pin strikes dead center. If it's off by very much at all it seems to me that indexing primers should help with more consistent ignition.   

I try to eliminate every variable I can, because the biggest one I can't eliminate is me.

Jerryh
  

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Chris C
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Re: Turning Necks
Reply #46 - May 25th, 2018 at 2:58pm
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I index both my case and primers. (at the recommendation of J. Louis)  But something else I'm going to start doing is to use a Redding flash hole deburring tool on my cases.  I've just finished reading a very informative book written by Glen Zediker titled Top Grade Ammo.  One of the things he stressed was having the inside of the flash hole beveled uniformly from one case to the next and said the best way to do that, if the cases weren't "exactly the same length" was to register that bevel off the web of the case and not the neck.  The Redding does that.  I'm presently doing that with my .223 cases, but there's no reason it wouldn't be helpful to do the same when prepping my single-shot cases.
  

Chris
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JLouis
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Re: Turning Necks
Reply #47 - May 25th, 2018 at 5:04pm
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Chris I too bevel the interior side of the flash hole and I believe I bevel it a bit more than what the tool made for the job provides. I am also very careful on how I seat the anvil back into the primer cup when seating the primer into the case and I try hard to replicate that same amount of pressure each time. I would be highly interested in what your book might have to reveal if it might also be covered. I actually try to repeat every thing I do the same, seating the bullet, drop the powder and insert the case into the chamber and try to do it with paying the up most of attention. I have watched some who just take their charged case and almost slam it into the chamber unknowingly moving the powder forward in the case. Away from the primer and possibly altering the ignition from one inserted case to the next. I try to insert my case carefully in an attempt to maintain how the powder just naturally slumps on it's own. This subject is quite interesting in that it points out just how important the case itself really is and not just simply an object for the sole purpose of just containing the powder. But actually one of the most important and critical components for achieving the very best in accuracy or just the opposite dependent on what has now been clearly discussed thus far and if one either chooses to take advantage of it or to just simply discard it. 

JLouis
  

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Dellet
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Re: Turning Necks
Reply #48 - May 25th, 2018 at 7:21pm
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Chris C wrote on May 25th, 2018 at 2:58pm:
I index both my case and primers. (at the recommendation of J. Louis)  But something else I'm going to start doing is to use a Redding flash hole deburring tool on my cases.  I've just finished reading a very informative book written by Glen Zediker titled Top Grade Ammo.  One of the things he stressed was having the inside of the flash hole beveled uniformly from one case to the next and said the best way to do that, if the cases weren't "exactly the same length" was to register that bevel off the web of the case and not the neck.  The Redding does that.  I'm presently doing that with my .223 cases, but there's no reason it wouldn't be helpful to do the same when prepping my single-shot cases.


K&M is another good tool for flash holes. The cutting depth is set by the cutter.

I became a believer in correcting flash holes picking tumbling media. If you use a drill bit or rod through the flash hole you find quite a few that point at the side of the case. Angry
  
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Chris C
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Re: Turning Necks
Reply #49 - May 25th, 2018 at 9:21pm
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JLouis wrote on May 25th, 2018 at 5:04pm:
Chris I too bevel the interior side of the flash hole and I believe I bevel it a bit more than what the tool made for the job provides. I am also very careful on how I seat the anvil back into the primer cup when seating the primer into the case and I try hard to replicate that same amount of pressure each time. I would be highly interested in what your book might have to reveal if it might also be covered. I actually try to repeat every thing I do the same, seating the bullet, drop the powder and insert the case into the chamber and try to do it with paying the up most of attention. I have watched some who just take their charged case and almost slam it into the chamber unknowingly moving the powder forward in the case. Away from the primer and possibly altering the ignition from one inserted case to the next. I try to insert my case carefully in an attempt to maintain how the powder just naturally slumps on it's own. This subject is quite interesting in that it points out just how important the case itself really is and not just simply an object for the sole purpose of just containing the powder. But actually one of the most important and critical components for achieving the very best in accuracy or just the opposite dependent on what has now been clearly discussed thus far and if one either chooses to take advantage of it or to just simply discard it. 

JLouis


John, in this book, also mentioned was "centered flash holes".  I've had to toss a lot of my .223 cases because the flash holes were very obviously off-centered.............though I've never seen that in my 45-70 or 38-55 cases from Starline Brass.  The main thing Glen emphasizes is case to case repeatability.  Every case must be exactly as the last one.  

To answer your question about primer pockets.........Glen says they should be reformed with a reforming tool so the bottoms of the pockets are perfectly flat so as to let the rim of the primer sit firmly on their entire perimeter so the anvil strikes uniformly. 

I'd be glad to show you a picture from his book as to what the bevel looks like after using the Redding tool, but I'm not about to post a copyrighted photo on the forum.  Let me know if you'd like to see it. I know it was a whole lot more bevel than I'm used to applying with my Lyman deburring tool.
  

Chris
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Turning Necks
Reply #50 - May 26th, 2018 at 12:09am
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JLouis wrote on May 25th, 2018 at 5:04pm:
Chris I too bevel the interior side of the flash hole and I believe I bevel it a bit more than what the tool made for the job provides. 

JLouis


JL, Where did you find the inside tool?

BTW, I index my bullets and cases too. I decided to test the theory today and turned my case 90 degrees and missed the target  Cheesy     Cheesy     Shocked    Roll Eyes
  

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Re: Turning Necks
Reply #51 - May 26th, 2018 at 12:34pm
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I believe anything affecting ignition is a place accuracy can be gained. Primer pocket depth is very important, as is uniform flash holes. I use the Sinclair flash hole tool to cut them the same size and straight. I will also reream the flash holes after a few loadings to clean any carbon build up. As stated deburring the flash hole is important.
  
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JLouis
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Re: Turning Necks
Reply #52 - May 26th, 2018 at 12:36pm
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Bob just use a numbered drill bit, have a way to keep it centered, turn it by hand and finished bevel is about the same diameter as the primer pocket.

Bob you must have turned the case 90 degrees with the 30 mile an hour cross wind instead of against it and just simply turned it the wrong way so go back out and try it again and let us know.

JLouis
  

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Re: Turning Necks
Reply #53 - May 26th, 2018 at 12:42pm
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I index my cases by leaning the rifle whichever way it needs to go until my case notch is to the top.  Roll Eyes
  
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JLouis
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Re: Turning Necks
Reply #54 - May 26th, 2018 at 1:03pm
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P1 good point on the carbon bulid up I try to scrap after every shot. The way I set up my headspace it doesn't take but a few shots to feel the breech block closing tighter due to carbon bulid up. And more importantly the point of impact will indeed change if I fail to do so. It will typicaly go high and just out of the 25 ring. Is it due to altered ignition that I cannot honesty say but it sure does seem to want to point towards it. 

JLouis
  

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Dellet
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Re: Turning Necks
Reply #55 - May 26th, 2018 at 2:05pm
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The K&M Flash hole tool will deburr and chamfer the inside of the flash hole at a uniform depth and diameter. The alignment cone floats on the shaft so even if case length is not the same, the flash hole will be. They are available in different diameters.

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JLouis
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Re: Turning Necks
Reply #56 - May 26th, 2018 at 3:41pm
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Thank you Dellet will go look it up appears to be a very nice tool indeed and thanks again.

JLouis
  

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Dellet
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Re: Turning Necks
Reply #57 - May 26th, 2018 at 3:50pm
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My bad. Here's a link to the company. Graf's and Midway both carry their products. 

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They also have a nice neck turning tool. But if I had it to do over I'd probably buy this one
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Re: Turning Necks
Reply #58 - May 26th, 2018 at 5:08pm
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Thanks for the info Dellet.
  

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Re: Turning Necks
Reply #59 - May 26th, 2018 at 9:14pm
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JLouis wrote on May 25th, 2018 at 10:06am:
Thanks Keith and I do appreciate your input as it appears to be new to some of the good folks here and indeed valuable information. When you were shooting Jacketed Benchrest would you have to do the same shoot and sort or does it seem to be more related to breech seating based on your long term experience. I do know it was very common in Heavy Class CBA but by using a single case for the match not multiple and I have seen several tossed to find the match quality cases but clueless when it comes to Jacketed. I should add the 30BR cases used in Heavy Class CBA were properly prepped, neck turned, primer pockets uniformed etc, etc. before being fired and sorted. 

JLouis


John, When I compete in jacketed benchrest I have not had the same issue with brass causing "funny shots" as breach seating schuetzens. Two things come to mind that might be the difference between the two shooting formats. In jacketed benchrest I exclusively use Lapua brass which is superior than what we use for the 32/40 or 32 Miller. Second is the bullet alignment in a neck turned case for jacketed benchrest. That is more superior for accuracy than a breach seated bullet in front of a charged case. But we all know are breach seated bullets shoot better than fixed ammo. Turning your case 45 degrees between shots has proven that the case is not a high quality component like our custom bullets and barrels. Keith
  
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