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What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing (Read 12118 times)

corerftech Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 259 Location: Memphis, TN Joined: Mar 3^rd, 2014	What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing Mar 7^th, 2018 at 7:45pm	Print Post
	Is there a standard that works well, Typically, for BS ing? freebore? thorat angle? Generalities please, I know there is 9 ways to skin every cat you see, 25 cal to 45 cal... Mike


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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7391 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing Reply #1 - Mar 7^th, 2018 at 8:24pm	Print Post
	In BSing, there really isn't a ideal throat. You can seat long, heavy bullets, w/o deformation, best with a free bore and long lead. But, many people do well with just the standard 32/40 type throating it has just a 21.5 deg throat, starting at the outside diameter of the case, tapering down through the lands. Tapered bullets usually work better in the standard 32/40 type throat. Anyone that does well, with their rifle, will like what ever throat it has Frank

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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing Reply #2 - Mar 7^th, 2018 at 8:39pm	Print Post
	Call and talk to David MOS and go with what he suggests and you cannot go wrong. It's just not my place to openly share what he has so openly shared with myself and others but his alone to share. JLouis

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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Jeff_Schultz ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 1627 Location: Ransomville, NY Joined: Apr 25^th, 2004	Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing Reply #3 - Mar 7^th, 2018 at 9:20pm	Print Post
	It doesn't matter.

	"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo “There is no situation so bad that it cannot be made worse." Confidence- The feeling you get before you fully understand the situation.
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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing Reply #4 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 12:54am	Print Post
	There must be some differences. Dave Purcell told me he could not get his .25 Hornet to shoot until Russ Weber throated it.

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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40_Rod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Extremism in the persuit of accuracy is not a vice Posts: 4285 Location: Knoxville, TN Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing Reply #5 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 9:29am	Print Post
	It depends on the bullet matching the bullet to the throat. Depending on what your throat is the bullet may want to be a baseband bullet or a tapered bullet. 40 Rod


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16723 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing Reply #6 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 3:13pm	Print Post
	Isn't this why most schuetzen breech seating is done with tapered bullet designs, so they seat straight? With the tapered design my bullets seat so easily it seems it would be tough for them to be forced off center.

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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing Reply #7 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 3:36pm	Print Post
	My Stevens-Pope ML shoots well with a tapered bullet. The bullet is larger than the inside case diameter so it just slides ahead of the breech seater and the taper aligns it. The offhand stock and clumsy prongs are more limiting than the throat

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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Jeff_Schultz ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 1627 Location: Ransomville, NY Joined: Apr 25^th, 2004	Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing Reply #8 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 6:05pm	Print Post
	"Unfortunately we cannot measure the inline concentricity of a bullet that has been breech seated. However poorer inline concentricity does affect accuracy." Very interesting, could you elaborate?

	"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo “There is no situation so bad that it cannot be made worse." Confidence- The feeling you get before you fully understand the situation.
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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing Reply #9 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 6:28pm	Print Post
	I use a cylindrical bullet and the seater case I made is also cylindrical and to the correct size of the bullet so it seats central to the bore. The only fault with a tapered bullet all though being seated central is it has more of a chance of having the nose slump off center. This due to when the bullet diminishes from it's original length as the body moves back to fully fill all of the the grooves and the nose has to move back with it and one can only hope it moves straight back. And if of a long spitzer nose design the chances of it moving off center increases even more and once it comes off center the very least bit it now becomes an unbalanced bullet and the rotational force will force it off even further before it exits the bore. If memory serves me right my 32 bullet at 1475fps. in my 15 twist is spinning at 13,275 rpms. so the forces are not minimal by any means on a lead and tin bullet. JLouis
	« Last Edit: Mar 8^th, 2018 at 6:58pm by JLouis »
	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16723 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing Reply #10 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:19pm	Print Post
	Schuetzendave wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 3:26pm: Tapered designs work very well in tight leades so what is the leade angle on your barrel Marlinguy? And how accurate has it been shooting? That's not so easy to answer, since I shoot quite a few different rifles, and all are old 1800's or early 1900's barrels. I have been breech seating for two Schoyens in .32-40 and .38-55, plus two other #8 Union Hill Ballard in .32-40 and .38-55. And another Ballard schuetzen in .32-40. Just starting with a Pope Ballard in .28 based on a necked down .32-40. Depending on the gun, my accuracy has varied from around .75" for the Schoyen in .38-55 and slightly larger .82" for the other Schoyen in .32-40. The Union Hills both shoot under 1", and one has a Winchester 1885 barrel, and the other an original Ballard barrel. All these are 100 yd. results off the bench, as I don't compete, but shoot casually for my own enjoyment. Haven't gotten into breech seating for my other singles yet, and not sure I will??

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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing Reply #11 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:37pm	Print Post
	Vall, How many shots?

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16723 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing Reply #12 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:45pm	Print Post
	I shoot 5 or 10 shot groups normally. I can't recall now on all the guns listed. I do know my Schoyen in .38-55 did the .82" group with 10 shots, as I have the target on the wall in my gun room. It has no lead as it was designed as a false muzzle gun, but I don't have the false muzzle. The group used the old Doc Hudson .38-55 Ideal bullet. It drops at .383" at the base and 2nd band is .382". The rest gradually step down from there to a final .376" top band.

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Jeff_Schultz ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 1627 Location: Ransomville, NY Joined: Apr 25^th, 2004	Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing Reply #13 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:57pm	Print Post
	I'm sorry, I had completely forgotten about the old bugaboo of "nose slump".
	« Last Edit: Mar 8^th, 2018 at 8:13pm by Jeff_Schultz »
	"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo “There is no situation so bad that it cannot be made worse." Confidence- The feeling you get before you fully understand the situation.
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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing Reply #14 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 8:47pm	Print Post
	Bigger bugaboo's than nose slump concerns out there like learning how to shoot the conditions or getting a rifle to shoot by far being the more important. Slump or no slump as long as the bullet goes where I call it and the rifle is consistent I could care less about anything other than truth be known as long as it and I are always capable of just showing up and it giving it our very best. Bugaboo's just make for an interesting conversation at times for those who have not been introduced to them before and then they can decide fact from fiction if they feel so inclined to attempt to do as long as it encourages them to get out to the range more. JLouis

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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