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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing (Read 12866 times)
JLouis
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Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing
Reply #15 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 10:53am
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Catch box testing if done properly.

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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing
Reply #16 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 7:54pm
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I measured my chamber cast for the Stevens-Pope ML .33-47 chamber.  The cast was made about 25 years ago.  The chamber at the transition to the rifling measures .341".  The base of the bullet measures .342". The seater is a push rod with a lever for mechanical advantage to push the bullet in.  As the tapered bullet enters the rifling the close fit at the end of the chamber obviously holds the bullet in perfect alignment with the bore. The rifling groove seems to be .336".
  

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JLouis
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Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing
Reply #17 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 9:10pm
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Bob Z having used a push seater off the the sight base using a plugged case and carefully indexing my tapered bullets the engraving around the nose or I should say the first point of engraving never ended up being the same from one seated and knocked out to bullet to the next upon close inspection. The engraving always varied from being the same around the diameter of the bullet. At times the engraving would start to show on one side, the other, top, bottom or some where in between and at times all perfectly engraved at the same point all the way around the bullet. It did not seem to matter how careful I was or even if trying to change my approach and introduction into the throat and the start of the engraving was very seldom duplicated from one bullet to next but by luck nor was it seldom uniform completely around the diameter of the bullet when starting to engrave. To me it meant they were not all being seated central to the bore or that the nose was being pushed off a bit due to the natural angle the bullet was laying in prior to it being pushed in.

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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing
Reply #18 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 11:06pm
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JL, How would you propose BSing a .33-47 like I have?
  

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JLouis
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Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing
Reply #19 - Mar 10th, 2018 at 9:55am
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Same way you have been BZ probably does not have enough ill affect to show up on the target. Weber using a blown out seater case and tapered bullets has done the same. Cylindrical bullet with matching bored out cylindrical seater case a bit more consistsnt but still not perfect just all a part of the breech seating game. Only point trying to be made is I don't believe any breech seated bullet is perfectly centered with the bore all though they are very typicaly real close to being so and probably close enough for one not to get overly concerned about.

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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

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Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing
Reply #20 - Mar 10th, 2018 at 10:22am
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John, how do you catch a bullet properly to be able to see nose slump, but not damage the bullet upon impacting the catch box?
I have used snow banks in the winter to do a pretty good job of catching bullets and not doing much deformation. But unsure what media and type of box will catch a bullet and not deform it?
  

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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing
Reply #21 - Mar 10th, 2018 at 2:24pm
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JL, If it there is no difference on the target, what does it matter?

As near as I can measure the bore is .336.  The Schoyen bullet that came with the rifle is .338 as I recall.  It can be ML but the .342 will not go down.

The .342 shoots significantly better than the .338.  I assume the difference is alignment when BSing.  The .342 fills the chamber mouth while the .338 would allow more than the .002 slop that Dave mentioned above.
  

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JLouis
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Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing
Reply #22 - Mar 10th, 2018 at 5:09pm
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Val shoot Barry Darr a PM  about catching bullets I am not sure what he used when he was doing his the nose slump testing other than it ranged from 5 thous. to 12 thous. depending on bullet designs tested. 

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Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing
Reply #23 - Mar 10th, 2018 at 5:19pm
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Bob Z it probably doesn't matter to some but I have yet to knock out a perfectly centered seated bullet, close too yes indeed but perfect might be a bit of an over statement is all. 

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Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing
Reply #24 - Mar 10th, 2018 at 5:54pm
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Val, in Mann's book he used oiled sawdust.

Chris.
  
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JLouis
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Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing
Reply #25 - Mar 10th, 2018 at 6:30pm
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Chris if memory serves me right I think Barry used something that was directly related somehow to Cotton or a by product of it's processing process but could be wrong. Just cannot seem to remember anything anymore but it rang a Bell in the back my head?

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Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing
Reply #26 - Mar 10th, 2018 at 11:30pm
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JLouis wrote on Mar 10th, 2018 at 5:19pm:
Bob Z it probably doesn't matter to some but I have yet to knock out a perfectly centered seated bullet, close too yes indeed but perfect might be a bit of an over statement is all. 

JLouis


How are they off?  Not quite in line with the axis of the bore?  I have always wondered about having to BS the way I am limited too.  Since I can't shoot a 251, it must be very consistent  Undecided
  

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Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing
Reply #27 - Mar 11th, 2018 at 12:40am
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Bob Z consistent and perfect are not one in the same, one can strive to reach perfection but can one ever achieve it? I surely have not and if I were to say I have it would be far from the truth. Have I consistently came close you bet all the time while always trying to reach perfection in everything I do and have done including the seating bullets. 

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Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing
Reply #28 - Mar 11th, 2018 at 3:50am
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Nothing is ever perfect, but how are they usually off when you observe?  Misaligned with the bore? Not concentric in the bore?   

When I first started a fellow told me he could not get his bullets centered on the target. They always went to one side. He said the face of his breach seater was not square with the bore.  He faced it and then his bullets hit center.  I found that a bit hard to believe.  If they were consistently off to one side , why not just adjust the scope, not the having a properly made breach seater should be ignored
  

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Re: What is the optimal throat design for BS'ing
Reply #29 - Mar 11th, 2018 at 10:32am
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Misalignment of breech seated bullets is something I've been meaning to ask about.  When I breech seat the Saeco 200gr tapered bullet in my CPA .32-40 it sometimes is misaligned.  If you knock it out you can see the engraving is not always even.  I suspect that maybe the taper of the bullet doesn't match the taper of the chamber very well.   

I've noticed that some bullet designs have only a little bit of taper.   Buffalo Arms sells a .32 cal bullet that I've been thinking of, it goes from .323" to .318".  The Saeco bullet has quite a bit more taper which maybe makes it harder to seat straight?

Chris.
  
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