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corerftech
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anneal and re-machine an existing FL die
Mar 5th, 2018 at 8:34pm
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I have been on a project needing now a 7.62 tokarev die for rolling block that has a .342 neck rather than the .330 neck (or thereabouts) it has now.
Everything else on the die is perfect. 

It doesn't have a pilot hole such that I can use a rougher directly to open the neck to 8mm. If I try to anneal (which will be successful) I need to have a simple method to open that neck to my desired diameter. I really don't want to lathe bore to get the dimension, I don't like little DEEP holes and that is a LITTLE DEEP hole. I suppose that is the answer. If I ran a chucking reamer in, there is not axis to follow critically. It IS an easy job for a chucking decimal reamer though. 

Re-heat treat is not a problem.

Anyone tried anything like this and if so, what humps did you run into in the process??

IM after a pearl of wisdom.

I suppose if someone has a sunnen hone Id be willing to pay a proper operator to open the neck for me as if they have the home, they likely know what they are doing!! Bubba likely does NOT have a Sunnen hone in the shop to "bubba" a die!

Thanks in advance
Mike
  
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rgchristensen
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Re: anneal and re-machine an existing FL die
Reply #1 - Mar 5th, 2018 at 9:51pm
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corerftech wrote on Mar 5th, 2018 at 8:34pm:
I have been on a project needing now a 7.62 tokarev die for rolling block that has a .342 neck rather than the .330 neck (or thereabouts) it has now.


Thanks in advance
Mike


MIKE:
     I have good luck making dies for casual use by boring them out of hard aluminum.   They will last surprisingly long, if kept clean.   AND, being softer than the ctg brass, don't need to be polished.
CHRIS
RGChristensen
  
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corerftech
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Re: anneal and re-machine an existing FL die
Reply #2 - Mar 5th, 2018 at 10:06pm
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I'll try the aluminum. I only need to size the neck and push shoulder back .001. No body work.
If that does the trick, maybe I'll repeat on 12L14 and then case harden it if it seems like it will wear.

Neck on TOK is .330 from FL sizer. I need it opened to .344. I can't lap .014 out of the neck in the die. Needs to fit a .327 bullet in a .010 neck wall. 
That's the wisdom I was looking for. thank you rgchristensen
  
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Marlene
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Re: anneal and re-machine an existing FL die
Reply #3 - Mar 5th, 2018 at 10:22pm
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If you're annealing and you're just removing a few thousandths, a regular chucking reamer will follow the original hole well enough. If you chuck the reamer as long as seems reasonable for your chuck, you'll maximize the flex it has to float and follow the existing hole. No pilot necessary for this job.
  
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craigd
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Re: anneal and re-machine an existing FL die
Reply #4 - Mar 5th, 2018 at 11:47pm
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If you're doing a little machining, what about making just a neck sizing bushing with an OD to fit something like a Lee universal expander body. You may be able to keep your cases a bit straighter. You may not need to or want to touch the shoulder on every sizing, maybe your full length sizer doesn't have to touch the neck and just bump the shoulder if ever wanted. Some folks prefer to expand up for the tension they want, so it may not be necessary to hit a precise neck sizing amount. If I wanted a combo full length sizer with a fixed all in one neck size, I'd think I would prefer it very accurately machined. Best of luck with it.
  
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OLD TUCK
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Re: anneal and re-machine an existing FL die
Reply #5 - Mar 6th, 2018 at 8:02pm
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The sizes you are talking about are both already larger than 8MM. 8MM is .3149 Decimal size. To convert Metric dimensions to decimal you will divide the Metric dimension by 25.4  and the result 8.omm / 25.4 = .31496. So you are already bigger. 
I work in all Metric figures every day and have to convert all to decimal. A pain but worth the time it takes as I still do not talk Metric easily. HTH FITZ. OLD TUCK. Smiley
  
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boats
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Re: anneal and re-machine an existing FL die
Reply #6 - Mar 6th, 2018 at 9:10pm
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I think I would make a chamber cast & send it to Dave atvCH4D.  Ask if he has something off the shelf that will let you form close inough to fire form.  After FF use neck sizers . May be you are close enough already for neck sizing.  Neck sizers are all that’s needed for most work. You could get a basic neck size body from CH and make your own Aluminum bushings like Chris recommended.  Or size with a bushing in a arbor press. 

Boats
  
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uscra112
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Re: anneal and re-machine an existing FL die
Reply #7 - Mar 7th, 2018 at 1:19am
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Marlene wrote on Mar 5th, 2018 at 10:22pm:
If you're annealing and you're just removing a few thousandths, a regular chucking reamer will follow the original hole well enough. If you chuck the reamer as long as seems reasonable for your chuck, you'll maximize the flex it has to float and follow the existing hole. No pilot necessary for this job.



I quite agree.  I have done this to finish a wildcat chamber.
  

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corerftech
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Re: anneal and re-machine an existing FL die
Reply #8 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 9:41pm
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Clarification to several.
8mm is 8mm bullets- .323 plus plus as needed for throat fit
32 cal is .314 as in 32 colt, s&w, h&r

I already have brass formed. Rather, I need to neck size after firing and eventually set shoulder back. Hence the need for an odd duck die(s).

Ch4d has been called and discussed at length.
I have no options but custom with them.

Looking for simple and cheap, which is what wildcat development has been done for years with, nobody wildcats, draws a cartridge, orders $400 in dies, then shoots the round to find out it fails to perform. 
Therefore a Rube Goldberg directive, too many dies and odd duck garbage,  must ensue as those are usually cheap, free or at the cost of R.E.M. whining at home.

I belong the original answer, "I've annealed dies and changed them" was the reply I was hoping someone would offer. Wanted a bit of confidence before I make a die butter soft again and destroy it. 

I'll anneal and machine the neck best I can and hope it will suffice for the need of load development. 

The varied replies from everyone has given me the what I need to run!

Thank you to all!
  
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Longdistance1
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Re: anneal and re-machine an existing FL die
Reply #9 - Mar 10th, 2018 at 12:01am
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I've done this several times to open up a sizer die, go to ebay type in barrel lap in search, drillspot has these brass expanding laps order the size that will work for you.  Chuck it in your drill press charge the lap with fine lapping compound, expand the lap to a slip fit in the die, have some honeing oil wd40 or pb blaster on hand for lube.  If you have a cheap ass import drill press the slowest speed is going to be best. Hold the die in one hand keep it straight, other hand to add lube, if you can't hold it by hand the lap is too tight,  lap a little clean the die and size a case to see what you have gained.
LD1
  
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Re: anneal and re-machine an existing FL die
Reply #10 - Mar 10th, 2018 at 12:33pm
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Try your seater die for the correct neck diameter.
  
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corerftech
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Re: anneal and re-machine an existing FL die
Reply #11 - Mar 10th, 2018 at 4:39pm
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Oh my gosh—-

I had read that somewhere and you just jarred a memory-

I will do that, may be just perfect!
  
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Quarter_Bore
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Re: anneal and re-machine an existing FL die
Reply #12 - Mar 29th, 2018 at 10:35am
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When making sizing dies please take into account brass spring back. Don't ask how I know this. This should be easy to determine using an existing die of approx. the same diameter and sizing down a case in it. When case is removed measure size of die and size of brass and compare. That will show you the amount of spring back to expect.
  
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texasmac
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Re: anneal and re-machine an existing FL die
Reply #13 - Mar 29th, 2018 at 11:26pm
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Longdistance1 wrote on Mar 10th, 2018 at 12:01am:
I've done this several times to open up a sizer die, go to ebay type in barrel lap in search, drillspot has these brass expanding laps order the size that will work for you.  Chuck it in your drill press charge the lap with fine lapping compound, expand the lap to a slip fit in the die, have some honeing oil wd40 or pb blaster on hand for lube.  If you have a cheap ass import drill press the slowest speed is going to be best. Hold the die in one hand keep it straight, other hand to add lube, if you can't hold it by hand the lap is too tight,  lap a little clean the die and size a case to see what you have gained.
LD1


LD1,

I have a die I need to increase the ID.  Your comment made me curious so I checked out drillspot's barrel laps on eBay.  I could not find any reference to them being expandable or is that a given?  If so how are they expanded?

Wayne
  

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texasmac
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Re: anneal and re-machine an existing FL die
Reply #14 - Mar 29th, 2018 at 11:27pm
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texasmac wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 11:26pm:
Longdistance1 wrote on Mar 10th, 2018 at 12:01am:
I've done this several times to open up a sizer die, go to ebay type in barrel lap in search, drillspot has these brass expanding laps order the size that will work for you.  Chuck it in your drill press charge the lap with fine lapping compound, expand the lap to a slip fit in the die, have some honeing oil wd40 or pb blaster on hand for lube.  If you have a cheap ass import drill press the slowest speed is going to be best. Hold the die in one hand keep it straight, other hand to add lube, if you can't hold it by hand the lap is too tight,  lap a little clean the die and size a case to see what you have gained.
LD1


LD1,

I have a die I need to increase the ID.  Your comment made me curious so I checked out drillspot's barrel laps on eBay.  I could not find any reference to them being expandable or is that a given?  If so, how are they expanded?

Wayne

  

NRA Life (Benefactor & President's Council) Member, TSRA Life Member, NSSF Member, Author & Publisher of the Browning BPCR book
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