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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Anybody shooting .25rf Stevens? (Read 45967 times)
ndnchf
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Re: Anybody shooting .25rf Stevens?
Reply #105 - Sep 29th, 2021 at 6:35pm
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I stopped at the range on the way home from work. I was able to gather some good chronograph data, both rimfire and centerfire. Due to limited brass and bullets, these were 5 shot groups.

Load #3 (from my log)
5.5gr Reloader 7, Arsenal 257420 bullet, 70.6gr.

Rimfire: starter pistol blank primer: avg 1082fps

Rimfire: starter pistol blank, Arsenal 257420 shortened to 59gr (gas check heel removed): avg 1101fps

Centerfire: CCI SP primer: 934fps

Load #4
4.5gr Alliant 2400, NOE 26063 bullet. 63.5gr.

Rimfire: starter pistol blank: 1337 avg

Centerfire: CCI SP primer: 1370 avg

Load #5
1.9gr W231, Arsenal 257420 bullet, 70.6gr

Centerfire: CCI SP primer: 1088 avg

Takeaway
I'll mostly stay with the centerfire version for convenience. That being said, I can probably up the Reloader 7 in centerfire load #3 a couple tenths to get it in the 1100 - 1150 fps range. Load #4 was a bit too hot, so I'll back down on the 2400 to maybe 4.0gr. Load #5 I'm good with as is.

Today was strictly velocity testing to get a baseline for several powders and bullet weights. No accuracy testing was done. That will start next time. But all bullets flew straight and true - no keyholes. All rounds fired the first time. All extracted easy with no signs of excess pressure and no blowback. 

Overall I'm very pleased  Smiley
  
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ndnchf
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Re: Anybody shooting .25rf Stevens?
Reply #106 - Sep 29th, 2021 at 6:54pm
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Here is the rimfire strike. Excellent contact and 100% reliable.
  
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uscra112
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Re: Anybody shooting .25rf Stevens?
Reply #107 - Sep 29th, 2021 at 8:49pm
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Excellent report.  Thank you.
  

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Dellet
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Re: Anybody shooting .25rf Stevens?
Reply #108 - Sep 29th, 2021 at 9:18pm
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You know, in the grand scheme of things it’s kind of a silly project, but it’s a whole lot of fun. The amount of labor per shot is pretty high.

Judging by the view count on this thread that is approaching 11,000, there must be a few more closet 25 RF fans out there.

Look forward to seeing some targets. 

One word of caution for folks is that with such a small case capacity and fast pistol powders thing can get interesting real quick. I do all my initial load testing in a 44 1/2, and probably was not as careful as I should have been.

I use Remington 1 1/2 primers because they are the softest ones I know of and did some of the initial load work up with converted Hornet cases before switching to converted 17 WSM cases.

The case volume of the WSM cases was a full grain less. In a case this small it makes a huge difference.

The problem is that there is no way to “read pressure signs” from the primers or case. The 17 WSM is pressure rated to 33,000 psi, even a Remington 1 1/2 won’t really show signs of pressure at 30,000, so your guessing in the dark. Even with Quickload it’s a best guess without bore size added.

Bottom line I was rocking those little 56 grain bullets out at just over 1800 fps.. Bad thing is that those were some of my most accurate loads.

Had that been in something like a Favorite, they could of been that little rifles last loads. 

Quickload guesstimated about a 4,000 psi jump in pressure to just over 20,000 psi.

That’s exactly why I use the 44 1/2 as a test rifle. Less to go wrong.

Just be careful in the older weak actions.

Other than that, have some fun.
  
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rgchristensen
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Re: Anybody shooting .25rf Stevens?
Reply #109 - Sep 30th, 2021 at 2:13am
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What fun!!!

I have been using hard aluminum to make dies for odd ctgs.  It works OK for most applications, and is easy to make special tools for, as the aluminum can be cut with un-hardened  tools.  And -- you don't have to polish the dies because the brass is harder than the aluminum.

CHRIS
  
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uscra112
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Re: Anybody shooting .25rf Stevens?
Reply #110 - Sep 30th, 2021 at 3:36am
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Miscellaneous thoughts:

Maybe there's a market out there for the Hornet-based adapters?  Anybody got a tabletop CNC lathe?  Or a turret lathe?

Yeah, the majority of that market is old boys' rifles, some of which are none too strong.  I've done the pressure/bolt thrust calculations, and concluded that most of them should be held down to 1100 fps or so.  Rolling Blocks, 1915 Favorites, and H&A Junior/925 maybe 1400 fps.   

My measurements showed the Hornet based CF adapter to have less case volume than the WSM cases, and much less than original cartridges.  

ndnchf's Hornet-based RF adapter using the acorn blank primer opens the way for a lot of the small rifles that don't have enough hammer blow to fire the WSM cases.  In light of his accomplishment, I'm pretty much done with the WSM route. 

CF primers are in short supply, but so far as I can see the acorn blanks aren't.  But they are expensive by comparison.  But if we start flooding Gun Dog Supply with orders the supply may get tight.  I'm also using them in Jack Harrison's .32 adapters, so I've already got a couple hundred. 

I've been making die parts out of 12L14 steel, which will cut nicely with normal HSS tooling. No need for carbide. 

Now I want a chambering reamer.  And maybe an undersize reamer for making adapters?  

Do I convert my 44 back to rimfire?  And what about the Model 12/101 hybrid?  

The 44 and the 83 will stand 1800 fps pressures.  How do I keep ammo for those out of the 1894 Favorites?  

Phil
« Last Edit: Sep 30th, 2021 at 3:44am by uscra112 »  

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gnoahhh
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Re: Anybody shooting .25rf Stevens?
Reply #111 - Sep 30th, 2021 at 8:41am
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I applaud y'all's efforts. Looneyism at its finest! Almost makes me want to go out and find a .25 RF rifle.

Oh, would that the Big Gun Companies would resurrect the .25 RF Long. Maybe call it the ".25 Whizbang Magnum" or somesuch to attract the younger crowd who get bored easily but yet willfully ignore the accomplishments of our forebears.
  
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ndnchf
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Re: Anybody shooting .25rf Stevens?
Reply #112 - Sep 30th, 2021 at 8:57am
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I'm glad to see you fellas are enjoying this as much as I  Smiley   

I thought I'd show my shop made tooling for expanding the case mouths.  First I made this 3-step expander from a 1/4" bolt for use with .17 WSM.  For expanding .22 Hornet, the first step is not needed. It goes in the drill press. I made a simple jig from angle iron and flat steel to hold the case. It clamps in the vise, which is then clamped to the table.  After annealing the case mouth, the expander gets a light smear of Imperial sizing wax. Then with the drill press OFF, the expander is run into the case where it is expanded to .250".   

It wasn't until after I made this expander that I realized my rifle's groove size was .257" Angry. So I made another expander from a 5/16" bolt that opens it up one more step to .256".

It may not be elegant, but it works great. I've done about 50 .22 Hornet cases with it.   

  
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ndnchf
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Re: Anybody shooting .25rf Stevens?
Reply #113 - Sep 30th, 2021 at 9:08am
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I make a point of writing down my conversion process for each type of cartridge I work on.  Otherwise, 6 months down the road I'll have forgotten it Embarrassed  This is my .22 Hornet to .25 Stevens process. I converted it to a .pdf file and am attaching it. Maybe this will help someone else.
  
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Sure shot
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Re: Anybody shooting .25rf Stevens?
Reply #114 - Sep 30th, 2021 at 10:44am
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For those that want a centerfire version of .25 Stevens, but don’t want to convert .22 hornet cases, Rocky Mountain Cartridge will turn .25-10 centerfire cases for you. Excellent thread, thanks everyone.
  
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ndnchf
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Re: Anybody shooting .25rf Stevens?
Reply #115 - Oct 3rd, 2021 at 12:25pm
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I went to the range this morning for another round of testing.  Both loads used the 72 5gr Arsenal 257420 bullet cast 30-1 and tumble lubed with 50/50 JPW/Alox.

Rifle used: #4 Remington rolling block boys rifle.
Sights: original fuzzy barrel sights and old eyes. 

4.0gr Alliant 2400 powder, CCI SP primer. Average velocity: 1180fps. I shot 5 across the chronograph, then 5 at 25 yards, then 5 at 50 yards.

6.0gr Alliant Reloader 7 powder, CCI SP primer. Average velocity: 1002fps. I shot 5 across the chronograph, then 5 at 25 yards, then 10 at 50 yards.

I was pleased to see these 72.5gr bullets stabized nicely. Despite the windage variation easily attributed to my vision, it clearly liked the Reloader 7 better than the 2400. 

I'm not too surprised. Reloader 7 is my go-to powder for old time, pistol size cases. The late John Kort did a lot of testing with this powder. In the .44wcf, he proved that a capacity load gave equal velocity and pressures to the original black powder load. I've used it in other old, small cartridges with excellent, safe results.  My load this time was 6.0 gr of Reloader 7. There is still space for a little more, maybe 7.0gr.

Steve
  
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ndnchf
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Re: Anybody shooting .25rf Stevens?
Reply #116 - Oct 4th, 2021 at 4:50pm
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Fortunately my gun club is located between my office and home. So stopping there on the way home from work is very convenient. So I stopped again today for another round of testing.

First off was to test the same 6.0gr of Reloader 7 (RL7) and 72.5gr Arsenal 257420 bullet, but with a CCI SP magnum primer, vice the standard primer. This gave a 45 fps increase in average velocity. 1002fps to 1047fps. Accuracy about the same.

Next was a bump up to 6.5 gr of RL7 from 6.0gr. Same bullet, standard CCI SP primer. This gave an increase of 109 fps, 1002fps to 1111fps.

Last was a bump up to 7.0gr of RL7. This is a full capacity load. From 6.5gr to 7.0 gave an increase of 94fps, 1111fps to 1205fps average. At 7.0 both ES and SD dropped considerably.

Despite the blurry target at 50 yards, the 7.0gr of RL7 seemed to be the best. Out of 5 shots I had one dang flyer high to the right. Grrrr. 

This little rifle is fun to shoot and really easy to load for.
  
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Re: Anybody shooting .25rf Stevens?
Reply #117 - Oct 5th, 2021 at 12:58am
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The only issue I have with this thread is I’m now regretting all the 25 cal rim fire rifles I’ve passed up over the years as I couldn’t get ammo for them.... and now I’ll need to buy the next one I see cheap.... Cheesy
Gumpy
  
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Re: Anybody shooting .25rf Stevens?
Reply #118 - Oct 5th, 2021 at 7:12am
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Great thread ndnchf. Those case forming instructions are really helpful, thanks. Currently installing a CF block in my HW .25 RF (#2 weight barrel) and modifying some Hornet cases. I reckon the HW should be able to handle those 6 to 7 gr loads of Rel 7 with ease. I'll be using an Ideal 25720 in 67 gr. 
Spud
  
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Re: Anybody shooting .25rf Stevens?
Reply #119 - Oct 5th, 2021 at 7:24am
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The RL7 loads will be fine in your hi-wall.  My little #4 roller handles them with ease. Please share your progress Smiley
  
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