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Bulseyetom
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What brass to start with for a 6mm-30/30 Imp
Jan 29th, 2018 at 11:29pm
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I have decided to keep my 1902 RB in 6mm-30/30 Imp after seeing how well it shot today.  This was my third time out with it and my first using 105 grain bullets which shot around 1 moa with Re 17.  My problem is making brass.  I have tried Winchester 25-35 brass with miserable case loss due to neck splits and have ruled that out.  I am getting fairly decent results with Hornady 25-35 brass with maybe 15% loss.  I have tried a few Nosler 30/30 brass and they seem to be 10% loss or less.  Has anybody tried Winchester 30/30 brass or any other brands in making Improved cases such as the 219 Zipper Improved, Wasp, 25/35 Improved or 7-30 Waters?  I have been using bullets seated into the lands to fireform but maybe I will try crème of wheat on a handful.  It is such a pain to shorten the cases and get them necked to 24 caliber that I hate to lose cases to split necks.   Embarrassed  Tom
  
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PlumbCenter
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Re: What brass to start with for a 6mm-30/30 Imp
Reply #1 - Jan 30th, 2018 at 12:43pm
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I don't have the 6mm version, but I do have a 25-35 Ackley Imp. and I had similar fire forming problems.  I solved my problem with a RCBS form die set ($$$) making the cases from 30-30.  Always use new brass and never lose any.
  
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Re: What brass to start with for a 6mm-30/30 Imp
Reply #2 - Jan 30th, 2018 at 1:33pm
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there is a FB forum specifically on AI.
  

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rustyrelx
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Re: What brass to start with for a 6mm-30/30 Imp
Reply #3 - Feb 2nd, 2018 at 12:15pm
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Sir: You should not be seating your jacketed bullets into the lands as it increases the thrust and obviously pressure. Putting them into the lands is for use only on lead bullets.
  
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rkba2nd
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Re: What brass to start with for a 6mm-30/30 Imp
Reply #4 - Feb 2nd, 2018 at 1:25pm
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The best way to alleviate case loss in forming is to anneal during the forming process.
  

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SBoomer
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Re: What brass to start with for a 6mm-30/30 Imp
Reply #5 - Feb 2nd, 2018 at 3:28pm
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Anneal, anneal, anneal! Use stout loads and absolutely seat the bullets into the land. You need to prevent ANY possibility of case jump or you will end up with dangerously short cases.
  
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Re: What brass to start with for a 6mm-30/30 Imp
Reply #6 - Feb 2nd, 2018 at 8:37pm
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Boomers advice is sound if forming rimless cases. In your case using rimmed cases, assuming headspace is correct, you should not need to seat bullets hard into lands as the rim keeps the case from moving forward. Even with excess headspace, fireforming will form the case to your chamber dimensions, and as long as you don't set the shoulder back in subsequent sizing, you will have cases that fit your chamber perfectly.
  

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Re: What brass to start with for a 6mm-30/30 Imp
Reply #7 - Feb 17th, 2018 at 11:05am
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My two cents, I have a 6mm Bullberry Pistol from where else, Bullberry in Utah (Fred Smith).
So thats a 6mm-30/30 Imp for the record.

I lost cases immediately because I didn't follow Fred's advice right from the start (not that you have made any mistakes!)
Once I landed on doing what he said explicitly, I lost NOTHING! Here is his to-do list.

NEW virgin 30-30 brass. (I have sub-saami chamber so fired brass is not useful)
Size 30-30 FL.
Trim for case mouth square (as little as possible)
chamfer lightly
Anneal neck/shoulder
Slowly size in 6mm/30-30 die, short stroke, lightly lubed, really lightly lubed!
Likely to have shoulder dents. Neck wrinkles will be the only potential for failure.
That was from Freds mouth on the phone when I ordered the barrel.
Here is the text from his website, which excludes several steps.

"Brass was first full length re-sized in a standard 30-30 Winchester die. The 6mm cases were then necked down using a tapered-shoulder 25 caliber die to a point slightly below the position of the base of the neck on the finished case. Cases other then the 6mm's were reduced in one step and by sizing in a tapered-shoulder sizing die for the appropriate caliber to the correct neck base position. Improved cases were then sized in the appropriate full length sizing die. All cases were trimmed to the correct length, those not requiring trimming were simply trimmed for uniformity."

The powders used for fire forming varied by whatever was on hand, but the lowest reduced load of any loads shown will fireform without excessive pressure.


What I didn't do was the 30-30 FL and the trim of the case for square. The slightest deviation from concentricity and uneven neck length axially causes the brass to flow non-uniformly and thus changes the radial pressure being exerted on the brass in one spot or another and bang, you get scrap.

Fireforming was using light bullets at mid loads, just kissing the lands. I did not use 6mm heavies, use varmint bullets. I used WW brass because it was handy, for no other reason. My loses have all been in forming not fire-forming.

I don't think it takes much in the realm of misalignment from brass flowing oddly during FL forming and prep, to cause a fine wrinkle or other defect that will generate a neck or shoulder failure on Fire-Form.
A second anneal might be in order only on the neck region to ensure that massive flow didn't harden beyond useful limits.

Again, my 2 cents.
  
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