Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 310 cadet using 7.5 Swiss revolver dies? (Read 4501 times)
columrick
Newbie
*
Offline



Posts: 4
Location: Ohio
Joined: Jan 21st, 2018
310 cadet using 7.5 Swiss revolver dies?
Feb 16th, 2018 at 4:59pm
Print Post  
Recent purchase of Martini Henry 310 cadet.  Excited to get some rounds assembled for it.  Using 32-20 cases, and RCBS mold.  I am going to use Cerrosafe to get chamber measurements, and slug the bore.  I have an original fired case from a 7.5mm Swiss ordnance revolver.  Fit feels perfect as far as OD goes.  I know the OAL is different. A 32-20 case is too long for this rifle, I've checked. The 7.5 Swiss revolver uses the same heeled bullet as the Cadet, and cases for both are made from 32-20 brass.  I have 7.5 Swiss Ordnance dies, and was wondering if anyone has used such dies to reload for their Cadet.  I know quite a few state they don't resize their Cadet cases; just reprime, powder, and push a new boolit onto the case.  I can try both methods myself, but thought I'd ask here before I begin.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
svartkruttgris#369
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2980
Location: Colorado, Norway, Sweden
Joined: Oct 28th, 2014
Re: 310 cadet using 7.5 Swiss revolver dies?
Reply #1 - Feb 16th, 2018 at 9:29pm
Print Post  
Loaded for 7,5 Swedish Nagant Officers Model revolver using 32-20 cases and pure lead bullets, either 0,314" HBWC or 0,316" 32-20 bullets. I used full length 32-20 cases and seated bullets deep enough to allow cylinder to turn. Used 0,320" 0,060 fiber wads under solid base bullets but not under HBWC (which expanded to 0,321" bore). Powder was 2F 777. Best groups were from 0,314 HBWC, good enough to reliably plink empty shotshells at 15 paces.

IF your rifle has a smooth chamber, like that in 7,5 Swedish Nagant revolver cylinders, perhaps you can use full-length 32-20 cases as I did. I never had a supply of healed bullets so using standard length 7,5 Nagant cases was not possible.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MartiniBelgian
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1734
Location: Aarschot
Joined: Jun 7th, 2004
Re: 310 cadet using 7.5 Swiss revolver dies?
Reply #2 - Feb 17th, 2018 at 2:06am
Print Post  
I'll confirm, .310 cadet reloading doesn't require dies - at least not for my rifle.  I did however need to swage down the 32-20 case rim for it to work in my rifle.
As you are using a heeled bullet, you need to use the case 
trim length to determine the cartridge OAL that will chamber.  Once trimmed, you're good to go.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Fred Boulton
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 801
Joined: Jan 6th, 2007
Re: 310 cadet using 7.5 Swiss revolver dies?
Reply #3 - Feb 17th, 2018 at 5:32am
Print Post  
What Gert said, plus: the case rim is thinner on the 310 than it is on the 32-20, however BSA did not control the chamber reamer very well and as a result some rifles need the rim thinned down and some do not. These latter will have a longer than standard chamber and it is worth making the cases longer to suit.
As for plinking at empty shotgun shells, I would be impressed if this was at 100 yds with a 310 Cadet.
Fred
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
columrick
Newbie
*
Offline



Posts: 4
Location: Ohio
Joined: Jan 21st, 2018
Re: 310 cadet using 7.5 Swiss revolver dies?
Reply #4 - Feb 17th, 2018 at 8:46am
Print Post  
svartkruttgris#369 wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 9:29pm:
Loaded for 7,5 Swedish Nagant Officers Model revolver using 32-20 cases and pure lead bullets, either 0,314" HBWC or 0,316" 32-20 bullets. I used full length 32-20 cases and seated bullets deep enough to allow cylinder to turn. Used 0,320" 0,060 fiber wads under solid base bullets but not under HBWC (which expanded to 0,321" bore). Powder was 2F 777. Best groups were from 0,314 HBWC, good enough to reliably plink empty shotshells at 15 paces.

IF your rifle has a smooth chamber, like that in 7,5 Swedish Nagant revolver cylinders, perhaps you can use full-length 32-20 cases as I did. I never had a supply of healed bullets so using standard length 7,5 Nagant cases was not possible.


Raw 32-20 case is too long; tried.  I have some 32-20 115gr cast boolits, and was going to try them with uncut 32-20 brass in the Swiss revolver.

What HBWC are you using?  Mold/manufacturer?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
craigster
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 823
Location: lost coast CA
Joined: Feb 20th, 2011
Re: 310 cadet using 7.5 Swiss revolver dies?
Reply #5 - Feb 17th, 2018 at 5:35pm
Print Post  
Once you get your brass to fit, fireform it, and use the correct bullet from this mould:

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
 
I use Linotype.

Tumble lube, thumb seat in charged case (I use 4.6grs Universal Clays) and fire for effect.

This load/method gives me 2" (+/-) @ 100yds with iron (peep) sights in my rifle.

I tried other " non Cadet " bullets, pretty much a waste of time.

If you would like to try some of the RCBS bullets, I'd be happy to make a donation.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
svartkruttgris#369
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2980
Location: Colorado, Norway, Sweden
Joined: Oct 28th, 2014
Re: 310 cadet using 7.5 Swiss revolver dies?
Reply #6 - Feb 17th, 2018 at 8:07pm
Print Post  
columrick wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 8:46am:
svartkruttgris#369 wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 9:29pm:
Loaded for 7,5 Swedish Nagant Officers Model revolver using 32-20 cases and pure lead bullets, either 0,314" HBWC or 0,316" 32-20 bullets. I used full length 32-20 cases and seated bullets deep enough to allow cylinder to turn. Used 0,320" 0,060 fiber wads under solid base bullets but not under HBWC (which expanded to 0,321" bore). Powder was 2F 777. Best groups were from 0,314 HBWC, good enough to reliably plink empty shotshells at 15 paces.

IF your rifle has a smooth chamber, like that in 7,5 Swedish Nagant revolver cylinders, perhaps you can use full-length 32-20 cases as I did. I never had a supply of healed bullets so using standard length 7,5 Nagant cases was not possible.


Raw 32-20 case is too long; tried.  I have some 32-20 115gr cast boolits, and was going to try them with uncut 32-20 brass in the Swiss revolver.

What HBWC are you using?  Mold/manufacturer?


NOTE: I have NO EXPERIENCE with the Swiss counterpart to Swedish 7,5 Nagant revolver.

Note that I stated that I seated bullets deep enough that they did not keep cylinder from rotating. 32-20 cases DO NOT extend beyond end of cylinder in Swedish 7,5 Nagant Officers Model Revolver. HBWC 0,314 are Speer -- I seated them only deep enough to allow cylinder to rotate, living more room for 2F 777 powder.

At least in Swedish 7,5 Nagant revolver, cylinder-barrel gap is wide for use with black powder. Swedish 7,5 Nagant revolver is excellent BP revolver. I could shoot 50 round action pistol matches with NO CLEANING of bore.

ONLY BPs gave muzzle velocities as for original ammo, Because that wide gap reduced velocities with fast burning nitro powders used by Norma.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
svartkruttgris#369
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2980
Location: Colorado, Norway, Sweden
Joined: Oct 28th, 2014
Re: 310 cadet using 7.5 Swiss revolver dies?
Reply #7 - Feb 17th, 2018 at 8:09pm
Print Post  
Fred Boulton wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 5:32am:

As for plinking at empty shotgun shells, I would be impressed if this was at 100 yds with a 310 Cadet.
Fred


That was at 15 paces with Swedish 7,5 Nagant revolver. I cannot even see a shotgun shell at 100M!!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
columrick
Newbie
*
Offline



Posts: 4
Location: Ohio
Joined: Jan 21st, 2018
Re: 310 cadet using 7.5 Swiss revolver dies?
Reply #8 - Feb 17th, 2018 at 10:38pm
Print Post  
Swede Nagant and Swiss Ordance use the same round.  Before I found the RCBS mold, my plan was to use full-length 32-20 brass and bullet seated far enough to permit cylinder rotation, while keeping the boolit as close to the forcing cone as possible.  Since I bought the mold for the Cadet, I might as well assemble "correct" rounds, or at least try both to see which is more accurate.

I've got a supply of clip on wheel weight for casting, and enough pewter to sweeten the mix a percent.

I haven't found Speer HBWC for sale.  The places online I checked were out of stock.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie_Hunter
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 198
Location: Hervey Bay,Queensland
Joined: Jul 7th, 2008
Re: 310 cadet using 7.5 Swiss revolver dies?
Reply #9 - Feb 19th, 2018 at 6:01pm
Print Post  
I believe that if your rifle will close with a 32/20 case in the chamber, that you have a head spacing problem. Proper 310 Cadet brass has a much thinner rim than 32/20 brass. I bought my first Martini Cadet in 1958 and all the Dealer had was Sako 32/20  loaded ammo, which chambered, but at that time I was unaware of "head spacing" so happily shot it with no problems. Enjoy your rifle.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
columrick
Newbie
*
Offline



Posts: 4
Location: Ohio
Joined: Jan 21st, 2018
Re: 310 cadet using 7.5 Swiss revolver dies?
Reply #10 - Feb 19th, 2018 at 6:16pm
Print Post  
It does not chamber a regular length 32-20 case, so I'll consider myself lucky. Chamber cast first, then get a close estimate on case length, then try to chamber without messing with the rim.

Aussie_Hunter wrote on Feb 19th, 2018 at 6:01pm:
I believe that if your rifle will close with a 32/20 case in the chamber, that you have a head spacing problem. Proper 310 Cadet brass has a much thinner rim than 32/20 brass. I bought my first Martini Cadet in 1958 and all the Dealer had was Sako 32/20  loaded ammo, which chambered, but at that time I was unaware of "head spacing" so happily shot it with no problems. Enjoy your rifle. 

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Barrabruce
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 80
Location: Australia
Joined: Mar 30th, 2017
Re: 310 cadet using 7.5 Swiss revolver dies?
Reply #11 - Feb 20th, 2018 at 5:16am
Print Post  
FWIW
No cadet is in any real specs after 100yrs and people playing with them.
Mine slugs at 0.324-5" and starline brass is a bit thin on the neck for the 0.315 heel of the rbcs mould.
I made my brass firstly by using a tapered reamer in an old bit of drilled out pipe so as the shoulder of the 32-20 brass gets swaged down so it conforms the the cadet chamber somewhat.
Now I use an old cut down barrel chamber with the rim ground off enough so as the case gets sized.
I breach seat with a plugged case and something like 2.8 grns bulleye and a wad 1-200 thou off the powder.
I was getting less than an honest inch at 50yrds but soldered a washer on the rear sight so I can see the target with out so much fuzziness.
Haven't tested it since.
I did make up a re-decapper just for it.
A 32-20 'ol pliers type loader could be interesting with a little work.
I do just thumb seat with longer cases. But breach seating seems the best accuracy.
I cut my rims down with a hacksaw blade with the cases in a drill chuck.
Chamber cast and bore slugs should reveal all.
I bought some bertrum brass but its too short for my chamber to thumb seat with the step on the mouth end but it holds the rcb bullet firmly once fire formed.
It may be a little too close a fit  Shocked
Hope it helps.
« Last Edit: Feb 20th, 2018 at 5:30am by Barrabruce »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send TopicPrint