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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Steavens 44 barrel retaining screw? (Read 8863 times)
Rebel
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Re: Steavens 44 barrel retaining screw?
Reply #15 - Nov 27th, 2017 at 12:13pm
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Why not just buy the one off Ebay?
Aaron
  

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Redsetter
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Re: Steavens 44 barrel retaining screw?
Reply #16 - Nov 27th, 2017 at 12:21pm
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marlinguy wrote on Nov 27th, 2017 at 11:22am:
With all the variations noted, I sure wouldn't feel comfortable choosing one.


Stevens workers with the job of assembling brl to frame didn't have to choose one--they probably had a bucket of them to choose from, so if one screw felt too loose or too tight, due to machining tolerances, they could select another.  This is the way bolts were fitted to new '03 Springfields--by trying as many as it took until one was found that achieved proper headspace.   
  
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Elalto
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Re: Steavens 44 barrel retaining screw?
Reply #17 - Nov 27th, 2017 at 8:13pm
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THANKS Guys,

I found and ordered the 5/16x30 tap and die that way I can re thread the receiver and if the new screw that I got is too loose I can make one that really fits.

Thanks again,
Marcos (elalto)
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Steavens 44 barrel retaining screw?
Reply #18 - Nov 27th, 2017 at 9:03pm
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Redsetter wrote on Nov 27th, 2017 at 12:21pm:

Stevens workers with the job of assembling brl to frame didn't have to choose one--they probably had a bucket of them to choose from, so if one screw felt too loose or too tight, due to machining tolerances, they could select another.  This is the way bolts were fitted to new '03 Springfields--by trying as many as it took until one was found that achieved proper headspace.  


Are you suggesting Stevens intentionally made slightly different thread pitches, or threads per inch so a sloppy threaded hole could be tightened up with a slightly mismatched screw?
I've heard of firearms makers in the old days having various spaced links, or parts so they could change them out quickly during assembly to align things. But different threads or thread sizes is a new one to me.
  

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Re: Steavens 44 barrel retaining screw?
Reply #19 - Nov 27th, 2017 at 10:08pm
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^^^  Me too.  ^^^
  

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Redsetter
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Re: Steavens 44 barrel retaining screw?
Reply #20 - Nov 27th, 2017 at 10:15pm
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marlinguy wrote on Nov 27th, 2017 at 9:03pm:
Redsetter wrote on Nov 27th, 2017 at 12:21pm:

Stevens workers with the job of assembling brl to frame didn't have to choose one--they probably had a bucket of them to choose from, so if one screw felt too loose or too tight, due to machining tolerances, they could select another.  This is the way bolts were fitted to new '03 Springfields--by trying as many as it took until one was found that achieved proper headspace.  


Are you suggesting Stevens intentionally made slightly different thread pitches, or threads per inch so a sloppy threaded hole could be tightened up with a slightly mismatched screw?
I've heard of firearms makers in the old days having various spaced links, or parts so they could change them out quickly during assembly to align things. But different threads or thread sizes is a new one to me.


"Due to machining tolerances" seems self explanatory to me.  Parts might be interchangeable, but that didn't mean they fit together perfectly, as you often find when trying to swap parts from guns made years, or maybe only months, apart.  The same thing Eli Whitney discovered when he tried to implement his "interchangeable parts" idea; turned out an "old school" assembler with a file got the work done faster & therefor cheaper.   

No doubt computer-controlled machine work has today minimized this problem, but as long as cutting tools & other machine parts still are worn down as they are used, there will have to be manufacturing tolerances.
  
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uscra112
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Re: Steavens 44 barrel retaining screw?
Reply #21 - Nov 27th, 2017 at 10:44pm
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Even in 1890, toolmakers could make an accurate tap.  Automatic screw machines didn't appear until after the turn of the century, so screws like that were made on turret lathes. Chances are good that the turret lathe tooling was actually a multi-piece die, rather like the kind that are still used in pipe threaders, which would be just as accurately made as the tap that threaded the hole.  They were made to snap open at the end of the cut, so the lathe didn't have to be reversed to retract the turret.  Since the tooling controlled the accuracy, there wouldn't have been any opportunity for a poor machine operator to screw it up.  (screw it up!  Grin )
  

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Re: Steavens 44 barrel retaining screw?
Reply #22 - Nov 27th, 2017 at 11:14pm
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All of the action screws seem interchangeable between receivers, why do you think this is the only screw that won't?
Tried it on my 44's, no problem.
What am I missing here? 
It seems to overcome any tolerance build-up (of which there is almost none) you just tighten the screw a little farther
Are you guys re-inventing the wheel when the problem can be solved for $10?
Aaron
ps. I know some toolmakers that will spend all day making a $5 part they can just go buy.
« Last Edit: Nov 27th, 2017 at 11:21pm by Rebel »  

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Re: Steavens 44 barrel retaining screw?
Reply #23 - Nov 28th, 2017 at 2:05am
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30 tpi used to be used more often.
Stevens liked it, Lyman used it for their 310 dies, etc.
I know of at least one Clausing/Colchester lathe that has 30 tpi as a standard thread selection.
  

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Re: Steavens 44 barrel retaining screw?
Reply #24 - Nov 28th, 2017 at 5:19am
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I guess I'll have to relearn how to use that microscope.   Dug out my Whitworth gage, and the thread does match the 30 tpi leaf.

My South Bend 10" Heavy has 30 tpi in its' gearbox.  I'd guess others do, too.
  

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Re: Steavens 44 barrel retaining screw?
Reply #25 - Nov 28th, 2017 at 8:26am
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My South Bend 9" does not have 30 tpi on the box but I have the full set of metric change gears and I've figured out a setup to cut 30 tpi. The Maynard tang sight screws are #8-30 and I've had to make a few over the years.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Steavens 44 barrel retaining screw?
Reply #26 - Nov 28th, 2017 at 10:21am
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Redsetter wrote on Nov 27th, 2017 at 10:15pm:


"Due to machining tolerances" seems self explanatory to me.  Parts might be interchangeable, but that didn't mean they fit together perfectly, as you often find when trying to swap parts from guns made years, or maybe only months, apart.  The same thing Eli Whitney discovered when he tried to implement his "interchangeable parts" idea; turned out an "old school" assembler with a file got the work done faster & therefor cheaper.  



That all explains what I already knew. That parts on old guns were often individually fitted. But not an answer to my question on screw differences. I've never seen a screw on an old gun that wasn't interchangeable. 
  

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John Taylor
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Re: Steavens 44 barrel retaining screw?
Reply #27 - Nov 28th, 2017 at 10:44am
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Could it be that Stevens changed the threads at some time. I have made several over the years and I think most had 30 tpi but if I remember right there was one at 27.. The only reason I remember that one because it was the same as 1/8" pipe thread.
I pulled two out and checked them just now and one was .304"-30 and the other was .314"-30. Most likely the size is 5/16-30 with some variations. 
All three of my lathes are not set up to do 30 TPI but if I switch a few gears around I can do it.
« Last Edit: Nov 28th, 2017 at 1:48pm by John Taylor »  

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